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 Replies: 19 / Views: 3,048 |
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Valued Member
United States
462 Posts |
Hi All, I am a novice collector of European crowns. I thought I might share my recent ebay buys hoping to hear your thoughts on the value and state of the coins. Also one of them got little bit of history I hope you will enjoy :) France 1828 5 Francs - $69 Weight 24.74g. This is originally sold by CGB (cgb.fr) and was part of a 5 francs hoard known to be Clisson treasure ,page 21 http://www.bulletin-numismatique.fr...df/bn034.pdf According to the above there were 1645 or 45 Lb of 5 francs (thank you google translate) hidden under a foundation of a lean to. From the description the obverse has some corrosion marks , however I cant really tell by looking at the coin. It appears to have some build up similar to fine film on the obverse but not red/brown color.   1852 Sicily & Naples 120 Grana - $55 Weight 27.42g   Germany 1901 Hamburg 5 Marks - $47 Weight 27.62g   Germany Bavaria 1848 2 Gulden - $69 Weight 21.22g   |
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Pillar of the Community
Hong Kong
1270 Posts |
Good buy of the 1852 Sicily and Naples.
Excellent buy of the 1848 2 Gulden.
The coin of year 1848 is always a bit higher because of the special year of Great Revolution in Europe.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
Being a novice to collecting - I hope you started researching what these coins are supposed to look like (precisely) before you bought them.
The 1852 from Naples and the 1901 from Hamburg both look like they have collars that show clearly on the strikes.
That can happen on real coins but quite frankly is seen more often on forgeries. Have you checked the edges of the coin to see if they are properly applied?
Do you know what the edges should have for devices?
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Valued Member
 United States
462 Posts |
Hi Swamperbob/Wonghinghi,Thank you for the comments , I appreciate the your expert insight. The two coins in questions seems to be very close to the weight mentioned in the NGC. I have added pictures of the edges however they are not that great as I am having hard time getting my Celestron hand held microscope. Also the inscription on the edge seems to be correct however I do not have an example to compare it with. 1852 Sicily and Naples 120 Grana standard weight = 27.53g actual weight = 27.42g http://www.ngccoin.com/poplookup/Wo...oinid=309845   1901 Hamburg 5 Marks standard weight = 27.777g actual weight = 27.62g http://www.ngccoin.com/poplookup/Wo...coinid=96628   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
Those pictures are far better and show that it must have been a worn collar - the edges look good to me.
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2872 Posts |
These large silver coins are very satisfying to collect. Unfortunately everyone else thinks so too and nice examples can get quite pricy - particually once you get the common ones and have to search for less common types. As with every other coin collecting area I'd really advise getting the nicest example you can afford, you forget about the purchase pain very quickly but you never get tired of a beautiful coin. Everyone knows this but it's worth repeating, be careful on ebay - these crown sized coins are heavily counterfeited and I see fakes all the time. I think everyone should print out a "Do not bid on that bargin you have just seen that ends in 5 minutes" sign and staple it to their computer screen :) I like the Naples one - it's one I have on my to get list. Great edge photography too! Happy collecting. |
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Valued Member
United States
462 Posts |
Thank you, swamperbob and Bacchus2. These are all good advise , specially to a novice like myself.
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New Member
United States
3 Posts |
I like the big silver coins... crowns, 8 reales, dollars, thalers, etc. The detail on some of the thalers is simply amazing (assuming you can get your hands on an AU/UNC specimen).
I'm not a big fan of the first two coins you listed (boring designs), but the bottom two are nice. How many do you have in total?
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Valued Member
United States
462 Posts |
Mkivtt, thank you. I have about 25 Thalers and 3/5 mark coins. I agree that these have far better design than most if the other crowns. I also have British crown, 5 francs from FR,Belgium, Switzerland. Most of the coins are common types and not that expensive. However I like the feeling of owning them :)
8 Reales , Russian roubles and Swedish spicie Dalar are in my wish list.
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Pillar of the Community
Sweden
729 Posts |
Here's my favourite large silver coin... Swedish 1777 Riksdaler. Too bad about the pitting on the obv though. Have been thinking about upgrading but it gets kinda pricy after a while   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
epikur I hate to be the one to point it out, but the coin you posted appears to be a cast copy - recently made using a transferred impression.
Is that your take as well?
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Valued Member
United States
462 Posts |
epikur, that is an awesome looking coin. This one is in my wish list :)
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Pillar of the Community
Sweden
729 Posts |
Quote:
epikur I hate to be the one to point it out, but the coin you posted appears to be a cast copy - recently made using a transferred impression.
Is that your take as well? I'm pretty sure it's genuine. Bought from a very reputable coin dealer here in Sweden. Lettering on the edge show no evidence of it being a cast copy. Size and weight correct. Might just be the lightning that makes the surface look odd. Will try to take better pictures in daylight, but since it's so darn dark up here close to the arctic circle, I only have a few hours on weekends to take good pictures |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
It is not JUST the surfaces - I am very concerned about the appearance of the Kings head, The chin in particular is effected by what I refer to as a "soft die" break. It is the type seen on plastic transfer dies and NEVER on steel original dies. I have checked several on line sources of recorded auctions and I conclude the coin is actually a forgery.  The big problem as I see it is how do you explain the Chin, nose and eyebrow die breaks? Those die displacements are not post strike damage in my opinion but point to a cast copy made from a damaged mold. There are numerous other very subtle clues involving the tops of letters and the extraneous lumps caused by die chips, but a close point by point evaluation against 6 real examples does not come out good at all. Heritage has several great examples of this precise coin in high grade and each of those coins essentially matches within the limits of period die making techniques. However, I do not see a match with the coin shown above. The face at the right is from a real 1777 Swedish Riksdaler. |
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Pillar of the Community
Sweden
729 Posts |
Thanks...I'll bring the issues to the dealer and see what he says about them
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Pillar of the Community
Sweden
729 Posts |
Hey Swamper. I talked to the dealer and he had no problem taking it back for a full refund. He was curious regarding the differences you found though..
Is there a possibility you can circle the problem areas and specify what to look for...or not to look for?
That would be much appreciated, both for me and the dealer himself.
thanks in advance
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Replies: 19 / Views: 3,048 |
Posted 12/16/2012 10:33 am
