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1858 PMD Or Something Very Interesting?

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tfred's Avatar
Canada
627 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2013  4:05 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add tfred to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Before I disgard this as PMD, I thought I would throw it up for some debate. Part of me thinks it could be a severe die break, or hub break or something like that. Is there any way something like this could have happened at the mint?

1858-PMD-Or-Something-Very-Interesting?

1858-PMD-Or-Something-Very-Interesting?

1858-PMD-Or-Something-Very-Interesting?

1858-PMD-Or-Something-Very-Interesting?

1858-PMD-Or-Something-Very-Interesting?

1858-PMD-Or-Something-Very-Interesting?

1858-PMD-Or-Something-Very-Interesting?

1858-PMD-Or-Something-Very-Interesting?
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CGCoins's Avatar
United States
797 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2013  4:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CGCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow, Never seen anything like that, and it appears to be raised. I am clueless on what the cause is for that!
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United States
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 Posted 01/29/2013  4:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bosox to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Without a doubt this is PMD. This one of the most common 1858 reverse dies. I catalogued it as RB2 in my books. I have seen many coins from both earlier and later die states without such marks. Maybe the work of a soldering iron?
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wert's Avatar
1988 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2013  5:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wert to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
tfred...looks like the irregularity is about half as high as the date itself..correct...?


1858-PMD-Or-Something-Very-Interesting?
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SHAFTA9a's Avatar
Canada
10743 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2013  5:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SHAFTA9a to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like someone took a nail and scored the coin.
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John1's Avatar
United States
56855 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2013  5:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am no pro and this is just a guess but it looks like metal tooling to me.I would have to say that it is PMD but I am not sure how it was done.
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artdio's Avatar
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 Posted 01/29/2013  5:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add artdio to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
for sure PMD
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 Posted 01/29/2013  7:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bill in Burl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It has to be PMD and Bosox just gave you the reason why. He WROTE the book on/with all the obverse and reverse working dies for 1858. He has coins made by the same working die ... examples from both before and after this struck coin (by the basis of other markers) and there are no such marks on those (or other) coins. If this was not on the working die and not on the planchet (it can't be by looking at the coin), then it has to be PMD.

I'm curious to know if there are groves (below field level) between the "lines" or is "between the lines" the same level as the rest of the field?
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enworb's Avatar
Australia
4411 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2013  7:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add enworb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Is there any way something like this could have happened at the mint?


Nope. with PMD
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SPP-Ottawa's Avatar
Canada
10463 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2013  8:01 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A V-shaped jewelers engraving tool, or a very sharp chisel would do that. Basically, you are looking at a cut channel, with the metal being displaced like levees on either side of the cut, actually being raised above fields.
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 Posted 01/29/2013  8:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bill in Burl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would imagine that the next trick that the guy with the tool would play would be to change the "E" to different vowel at the end of the alphabet to make the "Cent" a different word that we've all seen from time to time.
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tfred's Avatar
Canada
627 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2013  10:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tfred to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you very much guys. Your expertise is greatly appreciated. I'm satisfied with the verdict of PMD.

Please have a look at my 1888 that I just posted.

Thanks. :)
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