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20$ 1924 Fake Or Not?

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Lex1705's Avatar
Germany
321 Posts
 Posted 02/05/2013  2:10 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Lex1705 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hello!
I've heard there are a lot of fakes of these coins
It's 34.5 gr.
20$-1924-Fake-Or-Not?
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 02/05/2013  2:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
34.5gm is a bit heavy; it should weigh 33.4gm. That may be a function of the scale, or it may not. And yes, they've been known to be counterfeited. 1924 is the second-highest mintage of the entire series, which is to say that it's probably be my choice if I were creating counterfeits to put into circulation.

I don't see anything about this one which causes me to immediately panic, but I'm far from an authority on the series and defer to those with greater knowledge. They'll be along soon.

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BH1964's Avatar
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10982 Posts
 Posted 02/05/2013  2:49 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Re-check the weight. It looks fine but that is too heavy. A "fisch" type test (weight, diameter, thickness) will confirm whether it's gold or not. I bet it is genuine and looks mid-level Mint State.
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CoinsKelly's Avatar
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3453 Posts
 Posted 02/05/2013  3:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinsKelly to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am crossing my fingers that your scale is not properly calibrated.
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 Posted 02/05/2013  4:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add g048406 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coin looks legit. In my experience, one of the best ways to determine authenticity on Saints is by the edge. The edge should read E PLURUBUS UNUM. Each word should be separated by 1 star and there should be multiple stars at the end of this motto. Most counterfeits don't have this as it was very hard to replicate.
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SteveCaruso's Avatar
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 Posted 02/05/2013  4:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SteveCaruso to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
From those picture, this one *looks* genuine; but aye, please double-check the weight (re-calibrate your scale if you can first) and look at the edge (a picture of that would make it much easier for us to look along with you :-) ).
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Lex1705's Avatar
Germany
321 Posts
 Posted 02/05/2013  5:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lex1705 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It can be a problem in calibration,but the scales asks the weight in 50 grams,for calibration,and I don't have it(
I've done more pics of the coin.The edge has E PLURUBUS UNUM and stars ,but one side has very low strike,could it be on authenticity coin?

20$-1924-Fake-Or-Not?
20$-1924-Fake-Or-Not?
20$-1924-Fake-Or-Not?
20$-1924-Fake-Or-Not?
20$-1924-Fake-Or-Not?
20$-1924-Fake-Or-Not?
20$-1924-Fake-Or-Not?
20$-1924-Fake-Or-Not?
20$-1924-Fake-Or-Not?
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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23522 Posts
 Posted 02/05/2013  5:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I remain cautiously optimistic. The condition of the edge lettering is not a disqualifier. Use that lovely Half Eagle as a possible calibration for your scale; it should read very close to 8.24gm.
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Lex1705's Avatar
Germany
321 Posts
 Posted 02/05/2013  5:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lex1705 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've done something wrong with the scales and now it shows 0.98 gr. for one euro cent,but it must be 2.3 gr. :)
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CoinsKelly's Avatar
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3453 Posts
 Posted 02/05/2013  5:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinsKelly to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Maybe the scale should be authenticated instead of the coin...
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Prethen's Avatar
United States
3234 Posts
 Posted 02/05/2013  5:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Prethen to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The coin looks like it has been improperly cleaned if those pictures are at all adequate and if it's real.
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Lex1705's Avatar
Germany
321 Posts
 Posted 02/05/2013  5:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lex1705 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll try to work out the problem with the scale as soon,as I can.
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Lex1705's Avatar
Germany
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 Posted 02/05/2013  6:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lex1705 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The last two are scans,color is wrong,but it shows good a relief.
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SteveCaruso's Avatar
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 Posted 02/05/2013  6:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SteveCaruso to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If it needs 50 grams, give it 10 nickels in good shape. Each nickel is 5 grams, so it should average out to within a very small fraction of a gram to 50.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 02/05/2013  6:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm an advocate of both scans and images of any given coin; scans don't care much about reflection and are capable of showing details which a photographic image might mask. The images here, though, are excellent representations of color and luster. Added up, I see here a Double Eagle of appropriate color/luster and the slightest bit of circulation, one which has been used a little bit in the bullion sense of a Trade coin.
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westcoin's Avatar
United States
9792 Posts
 Posted 02/05/2013  6:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a link for counterfeit 1924 Saint diagnostics paper from Brian Silliman and the ANA.

http://www.money.org/media/6741/192...udens$20.pdf

I don't see any marks on your example that alert me right away, but you can see up closer yourself, check all the diagnostic tooling marks against the article photos and your coin. I'd still spend the money to have it certified, not only to ease my own mind, but that would aid in resale if and when the time comes.

I've seen some incredibly well made counterfeit saints while taking the ANA Counterfeit Detection course at the ANA Summer Seminar, it's really pretty amazing just how good they can be made.

The famous 1907 Omega coins come to mind, the maker "Omega" put an omega sign on his coins, presumably so he wouldn't buy back his own creations. Other than that minuscule mark, the coin is just about perfect when compared to a real one.

--copy from wikipedia--
Among the examples of counterfeits of high-value collectible coins are the "Omega" coins produced in the early 1970s by an unknown counterfeiter who signed his creations with a miniature Greek letter omega. He is believed to have made over 20,000 fake 1907 high-relief nominally US$20 gold Double Eagle coins with the signature omega in the claw of the eagle, worth hundreds of millions of dollars at today's prices. His counterfeits are of such high quality that collectors will pay upwards of $1,000 for one; although a genuine coin sells for about $50,000 to $100,000. The same counterfeiter also counterfeited other US gold coins, including a large quantity of $3 gold pieces, dated 1874, 1878 and 1882, with the 1882 being the most prevalent. Two of the counterfeit $10 gold pieces, the 1913-P and 1926-P, have the omega placed upside down within the upper loop of the "R" of "LIBERTY" in the Indian's headdress.
--end copy--

Interesting that the Omega saints are so well known (20,000+ known to have been made) that they sell in their own right as collector pieces now.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
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