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Replies: 24 / Views: 17,800 |
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Valued Member
United States
380 Posts |
I shipped a package through the USPS which when we shipped it they only asked what the value was ($2300) and not what was in it. We were never handed a list of exclusions. We shipped it as "Insured Mail" which offered a VF number (only they can look it up) number on the package. After weeks had passed we discovered that our package never arrived at it's designation of PCGS (a coin grading service in California). We were told we had to wait 21 days to submit an insurance claim.
We waited the 21 days and then were told that the USPS had 30 days to research the issue. During this time period, we repeatedly called to verify they had all the documentation they needed for the claim which they asserted that they did. At one point, we were told that if they haven't found the package within the 30 days that a check would be sent to us.
After the 30 days passed, we were told that they did need some more documentation. They said that as soon as that was sent they should have a check sent to us within 2 days. We gathered the information they needed over the next couple of days and faxed it to them. We called to verify that they received it 2x times which both times they assured us someone would call us when they knew for sure. Nobody called but we noticed on our USPS account that the status for the claim was marked "Approved". Great! We'll, I forgot this was the USPS. We called them to ask when the check was to be sent. When we called them they stated they would be sending a check for only $17 and some change because they have some type of "indemnity clause" on insured coin packages that aren't sent Registered Mail.
I asked to talk to a person in the Billing Department and she said they didn't have any supervisors (part of their rigged operation which they offer in addition to constant stall tactics and one-way phone calling). She gave me a phone number to call and that I could file an appeal (the main number). I called the number and spoke to a supervisor to which she somewhat reiterated the "indemnity clause" exemption. She said she would make a note on the claim that we were never informed of the exclusions and the requirement of needing to ship as "Registered Mail" to avoid the exemption.
So many questions: 1. Is it really insurance, if they don't offer a list of their exclusions? 2. Why did they question the value of the package but not question the contents (evidently their own employees don't know that there are exclusions)? 3. What did the $27 and change really insure? The box? Why would someone insurance a box for $27 to only receive back up to $17 due to an indemnity clause? 4. Why do they put the "insured value" on the outside of the box (other than to tell thieves what their reward is if they are successful in stealing the package)? 5. Why did they state they had all the documentation when they needed more? 6. Why did they need more documentation when they already knew it was for a package with coins and yet "coins" are one of their exclusions? 7. How do they "lose" a package when they offer tracking on a package? 8. We recently read that, supposedly, as high as 1 out of 7 packages shipped to PCGS is stolen. If we knew that, how does the USPS not know that (unless their employee's are part of a theft ring)?
10. When this type of thing happens, do you call the Attorney General, my Congressman, the BBB? Congress can barely keep the USPS afloat as it is. I'm guessing they need my money to keep them around for another day or two.
I'm trying to "appeal" this case with the USPS and my local postmaster is also trying to help. I'm trying to resolve this issue without too much fanfare but this seems huge. As a business owner for over 16 years it seems like it's hard for business to pull this type of thing yet this is being done by our own government. Somehow I think a business would be quickly sued and out of business for this type of business practice.
I'm hoping that this can help other people who might not know that their "insurance" may not cover what they ship at the USPS unlike a homeowner's and auto insurance policies require a signature to accept their exclusions.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
1. Is it really insurance, if they don't offer a list of their exclusions?
Numismatic coins are NOT excluded.
2. Why did they question the value of the package but not question the contents (evidently their own employees don't know that there are exclusions)?
They don't want to pay claims unless they have to. Again, no exclusions apply to rare coins.
3. What did the $27 and change really insure? The box? Why would someone insurance a box for $27 to only receive back up to $17 due to an indemnity clause?
The fair market value of your coins should be covered in full up to the insured amount.
4. Why do they put the "insured value" on the outside of the box (other than to tell thieves what their reward is if they are successful in stealing the package)?
Don't know. Over $2,000 and I ship Registered Mail because it's safer and cheaper.
5. Why did they state they had all the documentation when they needed more?
Your PCGS submission form should be supplied to USPS. They may also need examples of current market prices.
6. Why did they need more documentation when they already knew it was for a package with coins and yet "coins" are one of their exclusions?
They are not.
7. How do they "lose" a package when they offer tracking on a package?
Seems there is a thief at USPS in So. California.
8. We recently read that, supposedly, as high as 1 out of 7 packages shipped to PCGS is stolen. If we knew that, how does the USPS not know that (unless their employee's are part of a theft ring)?
It's not that high because most are Registered. There has been packages to PCGS missing this winter.
10. When this type of thing happens, do you call the Attorney General, my Congressman, the BBB? Congress can barely keep the USPS afloat as it is. I'm guessing they need my money to keep them around for another day or two.
Keep working with USPS. They should pay your claim. There are a couple threads at CU Forums on this topic. They might help you with guidance.
Hang in there and good luck!
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Valued Member
 United States
380 Posts |
Thank you for the post! Very Helpful! I will keep trying!
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
As I understand it, the USPS is broke, so their services are somewhat compromised. Be unendingly patient, and follow BH1964's advice.
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Valued Member
 United States
380 Posts |
I submitted an appeal with the statement that they do insure collectables, and they denied the first appeal within 12 hours, without any explanation! What should I do?
Edited by morgandude 02/27/2013 9:12 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5953 Posts |
They have paid several of my claims and always on coins. It was my understanding that PCGS and the other TPGs specify registered mail when sending in coins. I would suggest contacting PCGS customer care and see if they can help with the claim. At least get some info on previous successful claims to use as leverage.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9796 Posts |
Registered and Insured ONLY on any package that is over $500.00 for me.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
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Valued Member
 United States
380 Posts |
yes. I had not known much about registered mail until now, but I will ship using registered from now on.
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Valued Member
 United States
380 Posts |
*UPDATE*
Document 609 States that they insure Coins through Insured Mail as long as you have had them appraised by a dealer!
I call and say they have that form, and say "I want to speak to an adjuster"! They say " We cannot get a phone number, you have to snail-mail"! Then they hang up on me!
This Is crazy! I hope nobody else has to go through this!
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Valued Member
United States
161 Posts |
Read my thread I am going through this exact same nightmare. I am fighting the same battle. I am on my third appeal. It is in their policy that they cover items of numismatic value. Read this thread it will help you. https://goccf.com/t/137270
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Pillar of the Community
2087 Posts |
May be this is something the ANA and the ANS should take up perhaps also ebay. The Royal Numismatic society of New Zealand developed an arrangement with New Zealand post granting members an exemption from the standard coin exclusion clause. It enables dealers and collectors to send coins by mail and have them covered by insurance. May be its time to fight back with a Facebook page?
Edited by austrokiwi 03/05/2013 06:41 am
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Valued Member
 United States
380 Posts |
we are currently contacting our congressman. I hope he can work this out. MrMorgan, you could try your congressman too. Thanks for the help!
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Just another idea but lately I've been sending mine in express mail which is surprisingly cheap with a flat rate padded envelope. They havent been the insanely expensive submissions over the 5k insurance limit but they move through the system so fast I figure they have a better chance of making it there since less people get their hands on it.
Not sure if its true or not but according to the post office people at my PO they get graded on their ability with express mail so if they screw those up its one of the few times they would be held accountable if it happened to much
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Valued Member
United States
161 Posts |
Keep appealing your claim. My second appeal just got approved. It doesn't say how much it is for by if it's not the whole amount I'm going to lose it.
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Valued Member
United States
161 Posts |
My second appeal was approved for the full insured amount. If you appeal it and attach their publication that states coi ns with numismatic value are insurable they have to reimburse you. This is what I wrote in my appeal. If you write something similar and attach the mentioned publication then you should win the case like I did. Whatever you do don't back down.
"I received a check today for $20.15 when my claim is for $825.00. I called and was informed that the postal service does not insure coins and it was my responsibility to know that prior to shipping the coins. Well I did research the post office publications prior to shipping and it DOES state that coins are covered. Page 8 of publication 122, dated January 2013, states "Reasonable costs incurred for duplicating the fair market value of stamps and coins of philatelic or numismatic value, as determined by a recognized stamp or coin dealer or current coin and stamp collector's newsletter and trade paper" The coins I shipped were of extreme numismatic value and I have provided receipts to prove this. I am appealing my claim based on the fact that your own publication states my items were insurable. Also, I have worked with the postmaster as well as an individual from consumer affairs and was never informed that my coins were not covered. I have attached the publication for your reference. "
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Valued Member
 United States
380 Posts |
How long did this process take?
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Replies: 24 / Views: 17,800 |