Help On Authenticity Of Gothic Crown (1847)

Do any genuine Gothic crowns have the arrow-like edge lettering like that in the bottom of wonghingi's comparison pictures? I have three guides to UK coins, each of which warns to "beware of recent forgeries", but none of which show an edge picture or discuss *how* to beware of recent forgeries. (I've learned more from repeatedly reading this thread than I have from all of my guides. I really appreciate the info!)

jeffb Your second attempt certainly looks better. I do have some suspicions but at least it is not another copy from the Beijing factory.

The coin displays clear field deformations which appear to be recesses in the field in front of Victoria. This means there was material on the die itself - or the image transfer process failed.

Let me know what you think when you get the coin.

The edge font is Gothic. The shapes of the Gothic font is very distinctive. It resembles at most an eccentric arrowhead. The point on the right will always be longer. One of the edges shown is very close to a correct font. The one with the awful symmetric points is a fantasy font based on a misinterpretation of what Gothic looks like.

swamperbob Thanks for the update. I would have loved to get a refund on the shipping, but honestly if I just get a refund on the purchase price I'll consider it cheap education.

Here's a new listing, similar "coin", same location, new account: 200921496307. I haven't reported it yet, because I asked for a picture of the edge. But I'm pretty sure this one is fake (despite the protestations in the description that it's genuine). They seem to be learning to put a short term listing in order to try to avoid having their listings removed.

UPDATE: This new listing has at least a few of the same marks as the other fakes. I see the rim ding near "gratia" and the "neck pimple" on the obverse, and weird distortions of the decorations (flowers?) around the rim on parts of both the obverse and reverse. I'm hoping the seller will post a picture of the rim (for our catalog of fakes) before ebay shuts down the listing.

The listing ends 9am on Monday, so that may be too late. (Maybe that's part of the counterfeiter's strategy?)

I think Tom Goodheart's pictures are the good evidence to establish a fake Gothic crown till now. The fake Gothic crown seems to be flooding in ebay, jeffb's latest link to show a fake is very typical. I had seen another similar situation a few months ago. I see no logical reasons and it can't be a coincidence for a Chinese seller who parts his first and only coin is a genuine Gothic Crown. The location of the item is another suspicious point.

Jeffb, there are not too many people to meet a fake and a genuine Gothic Crown in such a short time, you are the seldom one. Please tell us the differences between the fake and the genuine so the future collectors can learn from that. I guess the difference in edge letterings is a key feature.

swamperbob:



I have one fake and one genuine Gothic Crown on hands, I make out the differences from them by my experience, the information from books and the experiences shared from the forum members. But nothing is 100% except you get a genuine coin from the Mint, I am welcome more input from any parties to make out the fake from genuine for this Gothic Crown.

I understand the reasons behind for not exposing the details of high grade forgery but I don't think this is a right way to do. Coin collectors joining a forum is to share knowledge and experience in this field so they can be more capable to differentiate the fake from genuine. Not to expose some sort of techniques to identifying a fake will harm the collectors but help the forgers. Yes, I have to agree to expose the details of a high grade forgery will help the forgers to improve their imitation. But NO FORGERY IS PERFECT, I believe! Henry

wonghinghi I understand what you are saying, but on the other hand I was recently advised by another authenticator of an 1847 Gothic crown counterfeit where the rim nick near the A in GRATIA had been intentionally altered post-strike He spotted it in the past couple days). The other clues not mentioned in my earlier post on this forum were NOT CORRECTED however.

It may only be a coincidence but my fear is that there may be someone watching this forum for tips on making high value fakes better. It has happened in past.

The 1847 Gothic crown forgery is well made and they always sell for far more than they cost to make. The last posting by jeffb had a price tag OVER $2,200. (I suspect the postal charge pays for the actual coin). That is a dangerous fake. If we lose the bigger clues these forgeries will be harder and harder to spot in pictures. They are still very easy to spot in person those clues are myriad - it is just pictures and the level of detail they show.

To combat this type of coin, I have suggested to the boss that ebay should alter the policy to require a full refund to ebay from the seller BEFORE the coin is returned. The coin would be mailed to the Committee and if judged in person to be a forgery it would be confiscated or marked "COPY" and then returned to the seller. The refund would go to the buyer. The basis for doing so is that it is actually illegal (under US Consumer-protection regulations) to mail one of these coins back using the United States Post Office unless it is marked COPY.

Destroying or marking these coins permanently is the only solution to prevent their re-sale. One coin can be sold many times, if it keeps getting returned.