Help On Authenticity Of Gothic Crown (1847)

It would only work for sellers who list on US ebay or sell to people in the US. Counterfeits, replicas and copies can be posted on venues like Spanish ebay or UK ebay provided they are legal in the seller's country, however, if they agree to ship to the US the auctions can be stopped.

But when a seller from anywhere posts on US ebay - US law governs what is posted. Once in the US, counterfeit coins should not be returned without adding the word COPY.

But if a seller does that on his own he might get sued for damages. However, if ebay established a policy UP FRONT to confiscate or mark all coins that are in their sole opinion counterfeit AND included in the agreement to post a Hold Harmless clause to preclude damage suits for any cause - then the onus would shift to the posting party to be certain the coin is NOT a fake.

I can see some legal pitfalls that may cause ebay to say it is not worth doing - but in a perfect world that is what, at least in my opinion, should be done.

jeffb I am saying that technically (presuming that you knew the coin was counterfeit when you mailed it) that it was in fact illegal for you to possess or to mail the coin without marking it "COPY" to comply with the Hobby Protection Act of 1973. This is because the coin was imported to the US after 1973 the effective date of the law.

That said - no one has been prosecuted under that law for an individual coin. It is used against big wholesale importers.

But the existence of the law actually provides a good excuse for anyone (who can back up the claim of forgery) to mark the coin.

The TPG's are of course ignoring the law themselves.

The case I am making is that ebay is actually becoming a party to a technical illegality by advising the buyer to return the coin.

Jeffb - I think by her tone - you can tell Judith was just as frustrated with the people in that part of ebay as you are. These are tiny understaffed competitive departments. Department heads have goals and co-operation with other departments takes a back seat if it slows you down so that you miss a goal and have to justify your FAILURE especially if it makes the competitor look good.

Having spent a good part my career in corporate middle management (until I returned to field work for my own sanity) - so I understand the need to close cases quickly. Apparently their goal is more important than getting "counterfeit" situations addressed properly.

But corporate types in situations like this often "Shoot the messenger" because this is not what they want to hear. Anything that adds more costs (people and time) is bad: anything that cuts costs to corporate is good. Doing a really GOOD JOB is never the objective no matter what they say.

You seem to have a similar experience to mine.

And they say this is progress?

I just escalated my case to ebay Customer Support. We'll see how well the buyer protection program works. (What's the emoticon for "fingers crossed"?)

Will do. I gave them a detailed chronology of the case. Unfortunately, I omitted the fact that ebay has suspended the seller's account, but the case is pretty strong even without that. I can send you the chron if you want to see it.

I believe we have a new listing of a fake gothic crown: item 271201981486.

• The photo barely shows some edge detail, but the font of the visible text looks fake (to me, that is)


• It's the seller's first item for sale


• The coin comes from China


• It appears to have the "neck pimple" that the other fakes had


• The rim by Victoria's crown looks suspicious, etc

Bob -

Here we go again ...

http://www.ebay.com/sch/busselliled...047675.l2562

The usual Fe/Ni, Brass/Low silver or German Silver alloy(s) die cast transfer pieces. Beijing factory.

Yes - the raised dots are a physical tell tale sign.
John Lorenzo
United States