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How Did This One Get A Clean Grade?

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Pillar of the Community

United States
5208 Posts
 Posted 04/13/2013  6:46 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add jack jeckel to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I know TPG's seem to look the other way regarding scratches and rim knicks and even worse for key date coins but this one looks horrible. While not circularly scratched like someone wiping it in a circle in between their fingers but I find it hard to believe those are handing marks on this coin.

And it's even CAC'd?

How-Did-This-One-Get-A-Clean-Grade?

How-Did-This-One-Get-A-Clean-Grade?

How-Did-This-One-Get-A-Clean-Grade?

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amida17's Avatar
United States
4897 Posts
 Posted 04/13/2013  6:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add amida17 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
if thlines are raised they are Die Polish lines. Unusual for a proof but not unknown.
Edited by amida17
04/13/2013 6:57 pm
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 04/13/2013  6:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I can't see them as die polishing lines; by nature, those should be heaviest adjacent to the devices whereas here they're missing by the devices. It's definitely postmint scratching of some sort, and the only thing I can think of is that the TPG decided "handling" did not equate to "circulating."
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vermontensium's Avatar
United States
16679 Posts
 Posted 04/13/2013  6:59 pm  Show Profile   Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, I'm also thinking that. The vertical lines are definitely post mint.
swcoin.ecrater.com
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amida17's Avatar
United States
4897 Posts
 Posted 04/13/2013  7:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add amida17 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I just can not see how it could have been cac'd if it that bad? I own no slabbed coins so I am confused how two major companies would pass if it were just cleaned? Probably me being naive.
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nlp coins's Avatar
United States
2373 Posts
 Posted 04/13/2013  8:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nlp coins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
little green sticker=pffftttttttt. Only time I see it worthwhile is in a crossover, and if it doesn't cross then it is totally worthless. nlp
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D0ubl3Eagle's Avatar
United States
5854 Posts
 Posted 04/14/2013  6:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add D0ubl3Eagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coins in the 19th and early part of the 20th century were many times stored in coin cabinets and/or coarse paper envelopes. When coins were shown to visitors, they were often handled properly by the edges. In addition, most collectors at the time wanted their silver coins to be white so many were likely dipped in chemicals like potassium cyanide and wiped with cloths soaked in other chemicals. Given the sliding around in coin cabinets and envelopes, improper handing, cleaning, and lack of contact with other coins, one can see that hairlines are probably the most common impairments found on proofs. Marks are to business strikes as hairlines are to proofs.

The coin over 120 years old and is mostly white. It probably has been cleaned but I think it would be market acceptable. The luster doesn't seem to suggest a market unacceptable cleaning and the hairlines(though numerous)don't look excessive enough to warrant a details grade. I don't see any signs of wear on the high points. There are a number of hairlines, which like marks on business strikes, is going to limit it to the low 60's. Overall, I think it is fairly graded.
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 04/15/2013  11:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The hairlining is pretty severe, I don't think it shows any wear though so a PF-60 is the best I would call it.
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westcoin's Avatar
United States
9792 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2013  03:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
with Conder101 except the 61 grade is spot on I think the old 60 grade went out a few years ago at PCGS and NGC, hardly ever see MS or PR 60 grades just 61/62/63 etc.

No wear just hairlines from improper handling over the years. The CAC just means it is solid for the grade given, nothing more nothing less. The Green bean is not meant ot add value only to say independent reviewers agree with the grade assigned by the TPG.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2˘ variety collector.

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Jaobler's Avatar
United States
6386 Posts
 Posted 04/19/2013  11:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jaobler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

The coin is graded fairly, with the numerous hairlines dictating the PR-61 decision. If you are interested in a proof Seated half and don't want to pay choice PR price a coin like this might be just the ticket.
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muddler's Avatar
United States
7193 Posts
 Posted 04/19/2013  1:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add muddler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I also agree with the "61" grading. Proof surfaces are fragile and hair line on them are caused by some of the issues mentioned above not circulation or cleaning so say. I often find coins graded in 60, 61 and 62 are in some way unattractive and I prefer a higher grade or for ms coins even a Well struck AU will have better eye appeal than some MS 61 coins.
Valued Member
United States
211 Posts
 Posted 04/24/2013  10:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JimmyJames to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They seem to only do this with proofs. It was a circulation strike, it probably would have gotten details or a lower grade.
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