| Author |
 Replies: 13 / Views: 2,213 |
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
1551 Posts |
In the NUMISMATIST Mr.Lange is now referring to vammers or variety collectors that collect Morgan and Peace dollars as "weenies". This is coming from a guy that wrote a book on cardboard coin books. I find the fact that what is really being said is that variety collectors in general are a pain in the rear end to him and NGC. As far as attribution of dollars they are at the bottom of that scale with far more errors then even ICG. The fact that they charge for a service that they will not guarantee their own work is only sightly funnier then the people that pay to have "un-guaranteed work preformed. Anyway the point of this post give some insight to what or how NGC see's variety collectors. Mr. Lange's opinion shows what he thinks and how he feels about more advanced collectors. It is the more advanced collectors that remind him that they are far from prefect. As far as attribution in all coins they are not on top either. I find it funny that they "NGC" charge a fee for attribution, yet they will not guarantee their own work. I find it even funnier that people pay them for this service. I for 1 will not send them a coin or coins, as they do not what me as a customer based on Mr. Lange's statements. I would advise everyone here to voice this same sentiment, to the board of directors of NGC, as well as other coin forums and news outlets. Today we are the "weenies" but I am sure, as I am that the sun will rise in the morning that, Mr. Lange's opinion will move to other type collectors later. Here is a man that fails to understand his customer base, as well as the money spent on grading and attribution fees from all coin collectors. We, the members of the SSDC are not the only variety collectors. From flowing hair and bust dollar collectors to large & small cent collectors alike. Mr. Lange's statements can be inferred to his thoughts of "All Variety collectors. We are an inconvenience to him; we remind him that a grading company "his grading company" is far from error free. Mirrors are funny things some will look at themselves and work to improve their image and then you have, Mr. Lange whom feels that if you break the mirror the problem is solved. To say that the he views "variety collectors with contempt" would not be a stretch. The best defense is a great offence, vote with your pocket book. Have other variety collectors understand that is statements are not just aimed at vammer's but to all collectors that really try to study their passion. |
|
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Id have to see his actual statement to what can be inferred from it. It is possible he just doesn't like those specific ones from all the different varieties they have.
That said if its such a pain in the butt just do what PCGS does and select the ones youll attribute. No one can force them to do anything they dont want and if they arent great at it it will hurt their reputation more than help them from the added income.
|
|
Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
They all publish a specific list of what they will and will not attribute; Paleoguy just ran afoul of what NGC attributes with a nice Buff. But offering an attribution without guaranteeing it? Really?
Doesn't much matter what Mr. Lange actually said. In truth, I'm having a hard time justifying a reason to recommend NGC for anything, any more.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
1551 Posts |
Quote:
But offering an attribution without guaranteeing it? Really? That is the fact, not a funny fact, just a fact! I am mad because I have sent items there 3 times to have them correct there own mistake on "striking errors" only to be told that they where right and I was wrong. That given coin was handed to them at the Philly ANA where Wienburg, and 3 others all labeled the coin for what it was. The 4th time they fixed the error they made, it just cost me 3 ins packages mailed to them with the same Idem and a plane ticket. To date this year I have spent bent numbers with a comma on grading fees. It would be one thing to say we do not attribute that type or "its not on our list". But to say we will label it and if that given label brings a above market value due to our label great. If we are wrong "to bad for the sucker that paid for the coin" is just wrong. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1374 Posts |
My general feeling is that those who are searching for and buying varieties don't need a TPG's confirmation. Smart collectors will ignore the attribution and actually look for themselves. All this follows the same mantra we've been championing for a very long time: buy the coin, not the slab. For example, TPGs have never figured out how to grade IHCs with any consistency, much less attribute them accurately. Other than sending in rare coins to verify authenticity, slabs are rather worthless in the IHC series. In fact, counterfeit IHCs have been found in even PCGS holders. By the way, another truth that most would never admit: those who send their coins to TPGs are often hoping their coins are overgraded so they can score larger premiums. Then, they get upset when it doesn't happen. Edited by Drsandman2
05/26/2013 03:05 am
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
|
|
Pillar of the Community
1028 Posts |
I pretty much agree with what has been said with regards to the TPG, but I also do share some agreement with Mr. Lange's assessment of VAM collectors. The word "weenie" is a bit before my time, but I guess it is akin to nerd. I probably wouldn't have used that word, but I do understand where he's coming from. Collecting (often with premiums) coins for a specific die anomaly which is so small you need to look hard with strong magnification does not appeal to me personally. Putting together multiple examples of the same date, all with microscopic differences, is something I simply have a tough time understanding. I also think the characterization of such collectors as "advanced" is an unfortunate word to use, just as "weenie." "In depth" or "specialized" maybe, but I am put off by the term "advanced." VAM collectors sure are knowledgeable about silver dollars, but I think they go too far. |
|
Rest in Peace
United States
10625 Posts |
I'm a "Weenie" who bought somewhere in the neighborhood of 60 Morgans last year with only 3 or 4 being listed with the VAM number in the auction and just one on the TPG label (ANACS). If I ever felt the need to get the VAM number on the holder other than my ink on a piece of an AVERY label, I'll send them to VSS before any TPG grading company with NGC being the last choice. Edited by dave700x
05/26/2013 6:34 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
2815 Posts |
I'm with hesgut. Major varieties such as the 1878 7T and 8T Feathers I get. You can actually see those differences with the naked eye. But microscopic differences of a particular date/mm coin due to various imperfections in a die? I'll never understand the appeal of that. It's just too much for me, but to each his own.
|
|
Valued Member
United States
104 Posts |
In my humble opinion, Varieties are the future of coin collecting.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1391 Posts |
Quote:
In my humble opinion, Varieties are the future of coin collecting. I hope not. I don't find that type of collecting appealing at all. I find it strange that NGC wouldn't try to exploit that market segment though. I wasn't aware that weenies meant nerds though. That is before my time. The way we used weenies growing up meant wimp. |
|
Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote:
In my humble opinion, Varieties are the future of coin collecting. Maybe not the future, but with how every one always wants to differentiate their coins and make them the most special I do think theres a good chance that the interest will grow or youll start seeing more listed on slabs. Quote:
I wasn't aware that weenies meant nerds though. That is before my time. The way we used weenies growing up meant wimp. Im not old by any means and I've known it to mean both. Might just depend on the area |
|
Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
5172 Posts |
I always thought that a weenie was, er, that thing little boys pee with  and if applied to people, I would've probably guessed "wimp". Is there any other meaning? On-topic, yeah, variety collecting is weird... unless the variety is reasonably easily visible (I won't dare say "with the naked eye" - you'd have to be significantly short-sighted to see with the naked eye, say, true dates on 1970s Spanish pesetas... or even to distinguish the mintmarks on modern Russian 1 kopek series; and I've been told that dates on some US gold dollars are smaller than either). If you can't see and identify a variety without consulting with loads of pictures to find out which one is the closest (which is the case for most VAMs, Overton numbers, Sheldon numbers, etc) it really shouldn't be something significantly collected (though I see the way how such minor varieties are all the rage nowadays because there are really few major ones around anymore - unlike the situation with earlier coins, where every single variety is usually supposed to be visibly distinct). But if it's something actually visible - small/large date, overdate, different number of stars/leaves/berries/feathers/whatever - I don't see any problem with it being collected (especially, like I said, with the relatively tiny amount of varieties any more major than that - you get a few cases where the actual design changed mid-way, such as 1839 or 1843 large cents, and that's about all). |
|
CCF Sponsor
United States
702 Posts |
I completely disagree.
First of all, weenie has a negative connotation. Nerd may as well, but I actually adopt it readily.
I feel die variety collecting is among the most important things we can do as cherrypickers. I look at it as a service to myself and to the whole collecting community. Here's why:
For those that aren't interested, they don't have to pay attention. No harm to the rest of us (few as we may be).
It's a service to me because I'm able to sell or trade for a premium when others miss the attribution. Kudos for me, and maybe a couple of extra bucks. Even if a variety collector doesn't find what I'm pedaling, a "normal" (that'd be non-weenie) collector might want it because they know it has more potential resale in case they run across one of us weenies.
It's a service to the collecting community because THERE ARE people that collect by variety, and though cherry-picking is the most fun way to do it, there are times you're close to completing the set you're after and you'll gladly pay a premium to just have it!
And yes, obscure is odd, but there is something neat about having "one of only 12 known" or "the finest of 43 known." To me. To you, maybe not.
Last point: to me, the variety collectors are the most interesting. I guess it's a birds of a feather thing.
Okay, now the last point: it's fun to think you might be discovering something new. For instance, I've stumbled on to what seems to be a huge secret about an important variety. And that's all I'll say about that.
Nyuk nyuk nyuk.
|
| |
Replies: 13 / Views: 2,213 |
|
Posted 05/23/2013 5:09 pm
with you 100% Mate
