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The Person Who Started Me In Numismatics

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grancap74's Avatar
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 Posted 05/25/2013  5:17 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add grancap74 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
The Person Who Started Me in Numismatics.
I have thought about subject since I joined CCF and wanted to write about WHO actually got me started in Numismatics. This is my 200th post and I thought it was an appropriate time. I apologize for the length and tried to make it as short as possible but some details I felt compelled to add.

I am 46 years old now and this is my recollection of my grandfather complied from my grandmother (before she passed) and my mother about the collection he left for me. My grandfather lived in Lake City, Florida. He was older even from my first memories of him, born in 1898. Lived his entire life there and passed away in 1989 which is astounding considering how he lived and what he did throughout his life.

He became a boxer around 1917 and we believe his record was 38/3. He spent 4 years fighting but it took a lot out of him, partially blinding him in the left eye and numerous dislocations and breaks. I have found out that boxing then was quite different than what I watched on television as a kid considering equipment and medical knowledge.

His work on automobiles around 1925 and would refit them to carry more weight and boosting the engines capabilities. This led to him working for groups to "transport" whiskey between the states; this of course was during Prohibition. There were some "issues" with State Police in Georgia and that ended this part of his life. I found some "documentation papers" wrapped up in quarter rolls, but that will be another post . Telling my mother I was writing this, she did not want this included but how could I tell his story without it. How many people can say they actually had "bootleggers" in the family.....

My grandmother and he married in late 1930, my mother was born in 1933. He took a job working on the intrastate railway lines building the tracks that would eventually become the railways of CSX. He worked for this company for around 12 years which took him up and down the east coast which is when he really started collecting. There were many accidents working then which caused more damage to his body, legs and left hand.

They were very frugal and saved enough money to buy land near Lake City. Then WW2 came so he ended up in the war, with his knowledge of engine and motor design he ended up reconstructing engines. He was wounded several different times during the war and was hospitalized twice.

After the war he came home and built a warehouse to start working on machinery. He became a repair technician with Wurlizter (jukeboxes) and Gottlieb (pinball machines). He added to the property and built a warehouse that could house all of the machines. This is the time his collection really started.

Now, I can actually comment because my memories of him start around 1972. His warehouse was around 20,000 square feet which as a kid looked bigger than the Pentagon. As children, my sister and I thought it was the best place on earth. We could go play on any of the 100 or so pinball machines that were in there. We always had our favorite ones to and were so very sad when they were removed the following week. The maintenance issues revolved around electrical or the coin slots becoming jammed. He saved bags of all the different coinage that people would shave down to fit inside so they would not have to use their modern coinage. He was not the collector that many are here on CCF, his was quantity versus quality.

We would 2 or 3 weekends a month, playing the machines and drinking Yoohoo and Orange Nehi's. These were the only drinks he EVER kept in the house. He lived in the warehouse; had built a retaining wall with a small kitchen and bath. My grandmother ended up buying property nearby because she was tired of living in a warehouse. Now it was even better, we had the warehouse to play in and then an actual bedroom to sleep at night.

Granddaddy liked his whiskey and gave us a little sip now and then. My mother would yell at him, he would just laugh and say never again (at least until the following week...). I never, and I mean NEVER saw him without a cigar. One day in 1977 he gave me one of his highest grades IHC, it was an 1862 I believe around MS60. He always told me to keep it safe, don't rub it or try to clean the coin. So I kept it in a plastic container and have it here with me as I'm writing this.

During the next few years he would show me coins that had jammed in a machine. He said people would use obsolete coins in place of what was being used at the time. There were many "Love tokens", IHC that were ground down to the shape of a dime and so on. He also had many cent rolls from the bank near the warehouse.

I went off to college and was away for most of the time during the last part of his life, college was 2000 miles away. My mother called in September of 1989 and told me he was in the hospital and was being moved to hospice. He had cancer for years and did nothing until he finally collapsed. He had ALWAYS told me "don't trust the government, doctors or anyone who says he is a lawyer". He hated doctors, hospitals and never went until it was too late to try anything. I came back home and went to hospice, I brought him the IHC he had given to me so many years before. He couldn't talk at this point but we just looked at each other and held hands for a while. I came home and would spend the next day with him, an hour after I was home, my mother called to say he had just passed away. That night all I could do was think about how I should have talked to him more. He had so many experiences and knowledge, but we all have had those times in life when someone leaves us, we should have talked more....

I had started my first company here, worked 7 days a week for 14 years then sold it. I then worked for a company which had me traveling throughout the world. I visited 41 countries over 9 years seeing more than I could have ever dreamed. I met my future wife on one of these first trips. All this time those bags of coins were just sitting at my mother's house, completely forgotten about.

In 2009 I started having medical issues, which became worse over the next 3 years. I had been a health nut all my life, running 4 and 6 miles a day, no alcohol and ate very healthy. My Grandfather drank like a fish, smoked constantly, was wounded everywhere and I'm falling apart. I just kept thinking of how he lived his life and lived so long. I was forced to stay at home when I remembered about all those bags that Granddaddy left. I could do nothing else, so I thought now is the time to start on this project.

I brought it up to my mother and she finally agreed that I could start going through them to divide them between my sister and I. There were a total of 8 bank bags, each weighing between 30 to 40 pounds, although we never actually weighed them. I thought we had just hit the jackpot! I saw these old coins and knew must be worth millions. I opened the first 2 bags and emptied them out in the living room (my wife was ecstatic about that!). The first two bags were almost entirely War Nickels. I thought, well.....nickels, at least they are worth 5 cents each. I bought a few books then started going to each coin store within driving distance to see what I could learn and who I felt the best dealing with. Of course I learned what War Nickels were. The next few bags contained more nickels as well as many rolls of dimes (Roosevelt, Mercury and Barber), quarters (Washington, Liberty and Barber). Then the "Christmas" bag was opened and this is when I fell in love with the Capped Bust coins. There were many Capped Halve dollars from 1811 to 1838, there were a few that made XF the rest G to VF. The gold coins were also in this bag. There were also plastic bags that were disintegrating inside the bank bags (all of you please stop cringing) containing quarters, dimes, IHC and others. All just loose together in a bag banging around together for however long they were in there. There were some key coins in higher grade which I'll post on later. There was an entire bag of his local bank wrapped Wheat cent rolls. The last bag was a mixture of Silver Dollars, Twenty Cent Pieces, large and Half Cents and 2 and 3 cent coins.

I joined CCF on October 1, 2011 after looking through site after site, and have enjoyed the time here so much. Every day, I would read posts here trying to increase my knowledge. 2012 was very rough, but almost every single night I read even though I could not type for a while, narrators can look back as I "disappeared" for about a year. I thought about all that Granddaddy went through to get these coins, and how fortunate I was to be able to have them now.

Blessings come in many different forms. I had made great money from my company but our medical bills continued, escalated and I was forced to use part of the collection to sell at a few of the LCS. I am glad that we have as much left of his collection as we do, however I hate myself for selling what I did as I have learned what they were worth on fair market and 2 stores really took advantage of someone who had little knowledge.

There are members here such as SuperDave, Moe, JBuck and many, many others that have some of the most amazing coins I will ever see and it motivates me to work on our sets and lean as much as I can. I still have more to go through, so every day I am still sorting and cataloging as much as I can, when I'm not reading posts here.

All of us have coins we have collected which mean so much to us, they ARE part of the family. As much as I have hurt for 4 years, I would not trade my IHC or the first Capped Bust halve (1811) that I pulled out of that bag for anything, not even the 1894 s Barber dime that was posted here a few weeks ago. I don't know what lies ahead but I know I can still work on completing my sets for the next generation with the great start that my Grandfather left for me.

I thank each of you for reading this (far too long) story and hope to hear stories from some of you here. Coins are not just our nation's history but our family's history as well.
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Earle42's Avatar
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 Posted 05/25/2013  5:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for sharing the great story with us. To me is was a great read and well worth the time.

Interesting about the health food aspect. I recently had a younger acquaintance who was a health food and jogging "nut" die from an unexpected heart attack. I think the harder life our grandfathers and fathers had to lead made them stronger.




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RK55's Avatar
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 Posted 05/25/2013  10:03 pm  Show Profile   Check RK55's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add RK55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for sharing, I enjoyed stepping back in time.
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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 05/26/2013  12:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
TL;DR.

Just Kidding!

Seriously, I do kid.

It took a while to read, but it as worth it (and not just because I was name-checked at the end). Thank you for sharing your story!

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CoinsKelly's Avatar
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 Posted 05/26/2013  09:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinsKelly to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Amazing story, I am thrilled you shared it. I look forward to your "documentation papers" post - I hope you are able to do it soon.
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grancap74's Avatar
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 Posted 05/26/2013  09:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add grancap74 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
CoinsKelly, about those papers.
My mother had asked to see them a few weeks ago, so of course I took them to her. I was writing this last week and asked for them back, she says she "couldn't remember" where she has put them....hmmmmmmmmmmmm. Really?
They WILL BE FOUND dangit!! and shown to the proper authorities
It is funny you commented on that, because my Grandfather's name was Kelly. I'm going to start posting some pictures here on different findings among the coins. We've been slow going through everything as I wanted to know more rather than dumping all out at one time. Searching all of these have been more fun than I could have imagined..

Thanks for the comments, he was quite a character as my Dad would say :-)
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ElizSmith's Avatar
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 Posted 06/03/2013  01:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ElizSmith to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My grandfather is the one who has started me in this hobby.
Got a silver eagle from him and now I'm hooked I guess.
Some of his friends will give me a few coins every now and then but I'm really just into collecting cents for now (until I get close to filling out my first book).
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CENTertainment's Avatar
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 Posted 06/03/2013  08:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CENTertainment to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great contribution. Your grandfather sounds like a true American in every sense of the word.
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Pete2226's Avatar
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 Posted 06/03/2013  08:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pete2226 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
grancap - what a marvelous story - this is a real treasure. I would like to encourage you not to stop with just this story. I will wager that there are 100s more stories in your family history waiting to be told. I have spent a lot of time working on my family genealogy and have discovered some wonderful things. In the process I have studied and learned to read Old German Script and have read some of the records of New Amsterdam, among other things.

I have found it quite interesting how numismatics and genealogy can intertwine with each other. For example, I have a copy of a deed where my ancestors, along with a syndicate of eight families, bought 16,000 acres of land from the Tappan Indians. In this deed, which contains the signatures of numerous Indian Chieftans, there is a long list of what was paid - this includes gunpowder, kettles and muskets among other things. One of the items listed was so many fathoms of black and white wampum. Now I had always thought that was just an "Indian thing". Recently, while researching the coinage of the early Commonwealth of Massachusetts, I discovered that the early settlers used wampum enough so that the General Court even placed a value on it in terms of pence so that it would support commerce with a standard exchange rate!

So, I would encourage you to keep digging into your family history for those stories. It might be surprising how often you find them intertwined with your numismatic endeavors!

Thanks for sharing.

Pete
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grancap74's Avatar
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289 Posts
 Posted 06/06/2013  5:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add grancap74 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Pete, the deed you have is TRUE history. I didn't just write this to tell what I know of my history, but look forward to hearing others. I've spent the last few days going over coins closer than what I originally searched, plus more doctor visits. I'm trying to take time instead of going through them like a crazed monkey, which is what I was doing originally. When I started I knew nothing about VAM's or RPM. It's time consuming but I start posting some finds in the next few days.
On this story, my mother says she still has a photograph of him in boxing attire. If so, that would be the oldest photo I know of in our family.
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Pete2226's Avatar
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 Posted 06/06/2013  8:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pete2226 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
grancap - do everything you can to obtain a copy of that photo - it is extremely valuable, not only for you but for other members of your family. It helps tell the story about who you are! If you can obtain a copy - would you consider posting it?
I am sorry to hear of your doctor visits. If you want to share what is going on with you, please do not hesitate. Somewhere on this forum, I think I shared a little of my own doctor problems. Six years ago, my doctors gave me three years to live with stage IV Prostate Cancer! I am still here and yesterday I celebrated my 50th wedding anniversary. Needless to say, it gives you a different perspective from which to appreciate every day as a new gift! I would say that my primary secret to staying married for 50 years is to live by the philosophy that "Love isn't love until you give it away".

Your words encourage me to post a copy of that Indian Deed. Jan Pieterson (Haring) is my ancestor.
Here is a partial translation: From "A Dutch Family in the Middle Colonies"(page 15): The Tappan Patent was actually 16,000 acres. "According to the Indian deed, the patantees agreed to give the Indians 100 fathoms of white wampum, 75 fathoms of black wampum, 15 guns, 4 pistols, 15 blankets, 16 kettles, 1 great kettle, 40 yards of duffel cloth, 10 yards of another kind of course cloth, 3 coats, 8 great hoes, 40 pounds of gunpowder, 50 pounds of lead, 10 shirts, 12 pairs of stockings, 1 cutlass, 1 trammel, 3 wedges, 2 gallons of rum, 4 casks of beer, 40 knives, 2 adzes, and 15 axes."
(My apologies that the deed is a bit blurry - the only way I could make it clearer is via a .pdf but that is not uploadable as far as I can tell. If anyone is really interested, let me know and I can E-mail it to you individually.)
Pete


The-Person-Who-Started-Me-In-Numismatics

The-Person-Who-Started-Me-In-Numismatics
Edited by Pete2226
06/06/2013 8:42 pm
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grancap74's Avatar
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 Posted 06/06/2013  10:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add grancap74 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Pete, I would really like you to email the deed to me! It will give me an excuse to actually check my email again.
I think that is fantastic to have something like that in your family. Now, I won't get "wampum" out of my head...
I'm ecstatic with what you have gone through proving the doctors wrong, and major congratulations on your 50th..
We're only on our 13th, so I feel pretty certain I won't make your accomplishment.
I was a health nut from high school on. Ran 8 miles a day, yoga, ate as healthy as anyone could. 17 months ago I started aching all over my body and of course stopped running because of the pain. I've worked in China for the past 16 years, where I met my wife which is the ONLY great thing that happened over there. It' a very difficult place to work, I was the only foreigner in our area for about 5 years. I was a "movie star" there, people would follow us on the road through the city, come up to take pictures with me. I felt like fish in a bowl sometimes. The people there are very humble and kind, it's the "officials" that really make it unbearable.
Went to different doctors and ended up at MAYO CLINIC. I have been a "case study" there as they cannot pinpoint anything that can account for the joint destruction and muscle deterioration. I was tested for triglycerides at the begging and they were off the chart, 1680. My heart and organs are normal, so they are still plugging away on me. They were discussing "autonomic neuropathy" last week, I don't even write down what they say anymore. From last May I have lost 70% of my "muscle mass", but the last few weeks have been trying to start walking about 10 minutes a day. My wife had to stay in China for most of the time with work, but came back 2 months ago and I could tell just by the look on her face how different I looked to her.
I was unable to type much for about a year and didn't post here during that time. Am now on 4 different pills that help and am starting to feel a little better. I swear that since they started me on meds for the triglycerides that I have steadily felt worse. I'm to the point where I want to go back to China for their docs because they can't do any worse.
In China, EVERYONE smokes 2 packs a day and drink morning till night and they all are living to mid 90's. You cannot get more ironic than that. I am very thankful for every day and for the enjoyment that CCF has brought to me. I'm not even 50 and still know I have a lot ahead of me, but some days are just so difficult which I know you can fully understand. I've gotten so involved in the coins that sometimes I realize I don't feel the pain as much, so I just keep going. We're just to the point now where I have to start selling off some so I can upgrade sets. I've been studying ebay the last week on that.
What area of coins do you collect? My grandfathers coins were all over the map, not really in 1 area. Half Cents up to dollars with about 15 gold coins in there as well. We have found some great coins the last week. I'm working on pictures to post some of those here, just takes me a while to get things done lately.
Thanks for writing Pete, I keep hoping that I can get better so I can go to a coin show but I may pass out from oxygen deprivation like some kid in a candy store
I"ll check in tomorrow, off to bed and pills. Thanks again to everyone writing here, I sure enjoy reading everyone's posts.
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BadToTheBone's Avatar
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 Posted 06/06/2013  10:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadToTheBone to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Now that was and is very dear to you because it is a part of why you collect and have a love as coins as grandfather did. Wow...My grandmother actually got me interested in coins. Heartfelt read for sure.
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Pete2226's Avatar
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3330 Posts
 Posted 06/07/2013  08:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pete2226 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a reference to Wampum from the original records of The General Court of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. The spelling is as it appeared in those records. {The dual year dating accounts for the change from the Julian Calendar to the Gregorian Calendar.} I am quoting from the book cited at the end of the quote.

"Although wampum may be said to have been the first adopted, the first legislation upon the subject of a small currency was that of March 4th, 1634/35 here following : "It is ordered that hereafter farthings shall not passe for currant pay.- - "
" It is likewise ordered, that muskett bulletts of a full boare shall passe currantly for a farthing apeece, provided that noe man be compelled to take above xiid att a tyme in them."
The purpose of this order may have been to "compel a more thorough distribution of the munitions of war, which, at that time, were liable to be called into requisition at a moment's warning, rather than a desire to drive from circulation the small brass or copper coins of English origin, which must have formed a much more agreeable medium of exchange than the bulky and inconvenient substitute here authorized.
The first record we find relating to the value of wampum is dated No¬vember 15th, 1637,[2] "It was ordered that Wampampege should passe at 6 a penny for any sume vnder 12d On the 7th of October, 1640, "It is ordered that white Wampampege shall passe at 4 a penny & blewe at 2 a penny, & not above 12d at a time except the receiver desire more." June 2d, 1641,[4] " It is ordered that Wampampege shall passe currant at 6 a penny for any sume under 10d for debts heareafter to bee made." On the 27th of September 1642,[5] " It was ordered that for the payment of the rate (wch is to bee paid the nynth month) wheate, & barley shall passe at 4s the bushell, rye, & pease at 3s 4d the bushell ; Indian corne at 2s 6d the bushell in these at these prices, or in beaver money, or wampam pay is to bee made."


[1M:iss;icliusetts Records, vol. i., p. 138. The quotations from these Records are from the originals, but the corresponding pages can be found in the printed Records by the starred page numbers on their margins.
2Mass. Records, i. 204 ; 3L 287 ; 4i. 308 ; 5ii. 22.]

FROM: The Early Coins of America, by Dr. Sylvester S. Crosby, Boston, 1875, Reprinted by The Token and Medal Society, 1965, Page 26."

Pete
Edited by Pete2226
06/07/2013 08:28 am
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grancap74's Avatar
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289 Posts
 Posted 06/07/2013  1:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add grancap74 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, thought I would start posting some pics of the "finds" thus far. Starting with dimes here, there were also Half Dimes, 2 and 3 cents in this bag. I'll work on those pics next.
I have read here before that ALL 1916 d Mercs should be sent to TPG's. Is that the consensus here?


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There's more, but will work on those next.
These 2 I LOVE the toning, plus they were much higher grades. Took them on a different background that showed the colors better.


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The-Person-Who-Started-Me-In-Numismatics

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Pete2226's Avatar
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3330 Posts
 Posted 06/07/2013  1:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pete2226 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very Nice Coins!
I can't wait to see more!
Pete
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