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 Replies: 8 / Views: 5,424 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
523 Posts |
I have seen them in pictures, yet never held one nor had the chance to buy one. I know that they are not rare per se, but surely they are not common either. I picked it up at my LCS and was happy to pay what I did for it.. I grade her VF20/30 or thereabouts. Also, if I understand this correctly, it is 270 degrees clockwise. It weighs 26.478g, it has the right ring so I feel good it is legit.. What do you think? Does anyone have an idea how rare it is and what premium for a Morgan dollar with over 20 million mintage with this mint Error? First, the Obverse.... Another picture... Now for the Reverse.... and again... Now for some close ups to verify grade etc..Obverse... Reverse
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
523 Posts |
Should this be in the VAM forum? |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
It's the weekend. Hard as it is to believe, numismatists also participate in real-world life.  The rotation is a real point of interest; you're correct in assuming that a rotation of this degree is quite uncommon. You're also correct in realizing that this circulated example of a very common year is going to depend wholly on the rotation for any added value. If this is, say, a $32 coin without the rotation (I'm being pessimistic), it's probably a $50-60 coin with. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
523 Posts |
Thank you Super Dave (Like the name - wasn't that from SNL?). Well then I got a good deal because I paid less than <$50 but at the time I just had to have it as it is neat. My wife found a rotated Kennedy half (?73?)that is probably worth far more because it is much harder to find one in modern coinage according to my reading. Thanks again for the information. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2757 Posts |
The rotated die census estimates that there are 13-30 1887 Morgan dollars that have rotations between 90 and 180 degrees. If your pictures are accurate, then your coin has about a 70 degree rotation. Still enough to add a nice premium, as already pointed out. Excellent coin. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
523 Posts |
70 degrees? Now I am confused. This is how I come up with the 270 figure. If one take a US coin and flips it, the reverse will be in line and straight. On this one and my 73 Kennedy, you do the regular flip and then you count degrees clockwise. The bird is rotated over 180 degrees in a clockwise manner. Am I wrong in doing it this way? If you go the other direction it is 45 degrees from 12 o'clock. confused... |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Quote:
The bird is rotated over 180 degrees in a clockwise manner. Am I wrong in doing it this way? No, you're not wrong. Sort of. Set the coin, obverse up. Flip it on an axis that goes from 3:00-9:00, and when you're done measure the reverse from what it *should* look like - straight up and down - in terms of degrees counterclockwise. That is the standard in numismatics. The trouble is, a die could just as easily rotate clockwise as counterclockwise. The "gold standard" of attributing die rotation is incorrect in my opinion, for that reason. As I see it, the ultimate standard is "medal orientation." 180 degrees out of normal. Anything between the two should be measured on a scale of 180 degrees, not 360. In that sense, robbudo is correct. Your coin is about 70 degrees off counterclockwise. That is not insignificant, and it's the dimension on which I based my opinion. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
523 Posts |
AH I think I get it now.....  It is 70 Degrees CCW and/or 290 degrees CW... or there about... Thanks robbudo According to Conder101, here is a great description.. Quote:
There have been two different "schools" of die rotation measurement. One of them starts from the "proper position and measures the offset and specifies whether the rotation is in a clockwise or counterclockwise direction. Under this system 180 degrees is the maximum possible. (Most widely used today)
The other system measures from the starting point but only in a clockwise rotation. So in that system if the top of the coin is supposed to be at the 12:00 position but instead it is at 9:00 it would be said to have a 270 degree rotation." https://goccf.com/t/70248 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2757 Posts |
You can understand how someone can advertise a rotated coin on ebay that is rotated 355 degrees CW. WOW! But wait, it was just really 5 degrees CCW, which is within mint tolerance. I hope we are not getting caught up in details - your 70 degree rotation is awesome. |
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Replies: 8 / Views: 5,424 |
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Posted 06/15/2013 3:26 pm
