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Please Grade My Coin! (1856-D Half Eagle)

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New Member

United States
6 Posts
 Posted 05/30/2007  5:12 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add kshaplin to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I just picked up this $5G 1856-D and would like to know if it is worth sending in to be graded. What is your best guess for a grade? Thanks in advance!

Kevin

Image: Please-Grade-My-Coin!-1856-D-Half-Eagle side1.jpg
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Image: Please-Grade-My-Coin!-1856-D-Half-Eagle side2.jpg
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***Edited by Forum Dad to move to Coin Grading Forum***
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 05/30/2007  5:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Welcome to Coin Community, kshaplin. That's an extremely nice, and rather rare, coin. It needs to be determined whether the coin has ever been cleaned or polished, and for that matter if it's a counterfeit or not, due to the rarity. It's absolutely worth sending in if it's real, cleaned or not. I estimate it at about AU55, possibly better since the hair details are a known weakness of strike for this coin. At that grade, with original surfaces, it's worth about $4000. PCGS and NGC have graded fewer than 200 of those in total, and less than 50 in Mint State condition.

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NumisMattyUk's Avatar
United Kingdom
2217 Posts
 Posted 05/30/2007  6:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NumisMattyUk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
$5 dollars?...never seen one of those before! - I'd say MS-60 but I don't have a clue about them hehehe
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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 05/30/2007  6:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Excuse me for being suspicious, but where does one just "pick up" Dahlonega gold in AU condition with perfect surfaces?

From Heritage Auctions archives:
mintage- 19,786
estimated survival- 110-120
estimated number in AU+ condition- 25

Dahlonega and Charlotte gold is notorious for having weak strikes and rough planchets and they are the rarest of branch mint coins. I am not accusing you personally of anything but my suspicious nature calls into question the authenticity of this coin strictly based on its rarity and condition. I sure hope it is real, but I have doubts...
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 05/30/2007  6:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


For anyone noticing the differences between biokemist6's numbers and mine, realize that there have been many resubmissions over the years, and nobody wants to talk about it. For that reason, graded populations for such a rare issue will usually exceed the known actual population of the coin.
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United States
6 Posts
 Posted 05/30/2007  6:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kshaplin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I purchased this coin on ebay. The seller has nearly 500 stars (sales) with a 100% positive feedback rating. Per the seller: "I guarantee that this coin is authentic and that the images below are unaltered digital photographs of the actual coin." I hope its real otherwise I'll get my money back.

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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 05/30/2007  7:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wowser. Either this seller is the biggest counterfeiter on ebay, or he's a legit numismatist with access to some really serious gold, and a lot of it. I see little rumblings about overgrading (his pictures are large enough to get within a couple of points).

Kshaplin, I am somewhat reassured by the seller. I strongly urge you to submit the coin to PCGS for grading - they are known to be pretty paranoid about altered surfaces these days, and if you can get it into a PCGS slab you're golden (so to speak ). If it comes back cleaned, you're out the grading fee, of course, but then you know to send it to ANACS for a Net slab and still-reasonable market acceptance. Either way, this one belongs in a slab for authentication reasons alone.

Even if it's cleaned, the very worst I see happening to you here is ending up with something worth what you paid for it.
New Member
United States
6 Posts
 Posted 05/30/2007  7:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kshaplin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dave,

Thank you for you input. This is the first raw coin I've ever purchased on ebay, as I usually buy PCGS graded coins but this one caught my eye. I was getting a little nervous with all of the counterfeit talk. Will PCGS proceed with grading if it is cleaned? I plan to submit it as soon as I get it.

I would still love to hear some speculations on what it would grade from any of you who have experience in grading gold coins. Thanks again.

Kevin
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 05/30/2007  7:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
PCGS will not grade the coin if it's cleaned. That's why I suggested ANACS, which will slab a cleaned coin. Its' value in a PCGS slab is so much greater that I believe the $50 it'll cost you to grade is a worthwhile risk. If they refuse to grade, PCGS will tell you why they refused, i.e., Altered Surfaces or Counterfeit.

Accurate grading will require someone who is quite familiar with Dahlonega strikes. The pictures, in all honesty, aren't up to the fine discrimination between good AU and Mint State - the reverse certainly looks no worse than AU58 to me, but a slightly different picture could sway me one way or the other.
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Mike's Avatar
United States
2884 Posts
 Posted 05/30/2007  7:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mike to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think the coin is a solid AU58. I also feel that it is worth more like 6K or more. The Dahlonega branch mint was a very low output facility. The coins ar tough to find and very unusual raw. I would be very nervous buying something this uncommon without seeing it hand. Less than 20 thousand produced. I wish you great luck on this one and would love to own one. Mike
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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 05/30/2007  7:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
kshaplin,
I just looked up the ebay seller and all I can say is .
He has alot of raw C, CC, and D gold- must be an old-school guy that shys away from plastic. Seeing his inventory, I am of the opinion of SuperDave- either he is a counterfeiter on a grand scale or he is a legit seller of high-end(for ebay anyway)coins. I could see that a legitimate MS coin and if it is, you got a deal
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trdhrdr007's Avatar
United States
2335 Posts
 Posted 05/30/2007  8:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trdhrdr007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I just went to ebay & did a search for completed auctions for this coin, the one I ran across showed a sale price of a little less than $3000. The same seller had several other very nice looking coins, all high dollar. I understand some people's dislike for slabs & TPG's, but it looks like the seller got a lot less money than they would have with the coin in a slab from one of the top 3 TPG's. Why would the seller leave so much money on the table?
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 05/30/2007  9:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Why would the seller leave so much money on the table?


Good question. Possibly because he's got so many of them that he's making a metric ton of cash just turning them over for cash flow. Or maybe he's laundering drug money.

I'm not joking.
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Jaobler's Avatar
United States
6384 Posts
 Posted 05/30/2007  9:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jaobler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Kshaplin,
The photos of your coin closely match the plate photo of the 1856-D $5 in Douglas Winter's Dahlonega reference book. The date, stars, mintmark, and other features all look to be the right style and located in the right place. Your coin actually has better detail on Liberty's hair and on the eagle's neck than the Winter plate coin which was graded AU-55 by PCGS. Unless the seller substituted a photo of a different coin, yours appears to be an exceptionally well-struck and high-grade example.
You absolutely should submit it for grading and then I hope you will post the results.
So, who was the seller? I'd be interested in checking out his stuff!
Oh, and welcome to the forum!
Rest in Peace
Morgan Fred's Avatar
United States
2684 Posts
 Posted 05/30/2007  11:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgan Fred to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Kevin and welcome to the forum!

Repeating what everyone else said, it appears you got a great buy! I just hope the 56-D turns out OK at a TPG.

I'll throw in just another guesstimate on the seller. It may be he's an old retired guy (like me) who deals with raw rare coins more as a hobby or retirement job than as a hardcore dealer who needs to make a living. Sorta like an eccentric, just likes to buy and sell coins to keep busy or keep himself away from his wife . Makes enough money off what he has without going through the hassle of submitting them to a slabber.
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Parklane64's Avatar
United States
2668 Posts
 Posted 05/31/2007  12:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Parklane64 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This looks good to me, but what do I know? I'm off to look up a number of terms in the glossary.

Such as this:

quote:
Dahlonega Mint

After the discovery of gold in the southern United States a new mint was constructed in Dahlonega, Georgia. The first coinage exited its doors in 1838 and it continued minting until it was closed due to the civil war in 1861. The 1861-D gold dollars were struck after the Mint was seized, the mintage figure for this rare issue is not listed in Mint records and has been estimated at 1,000 to 1,500 examples. The Dahlonega Mint struck only gold coins and used the "D" mintmark.


and this:

quote:
Charlotte Mint

Located in North Carolina, the branch Mint at Charlotte operated from 1838-1861 and was closed due to the Civil War. The Charlotte mint struck only gold coins (mostly from local, native ore), all of which bear the "C" mintmark.


This is almost as much fun as collecting.
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