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2012 Quarter Date - Debate - Whats Its Issue?

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Collector-Corner's Avatar
872 Posts
 Posted 08/13/2013  12:34 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Collector-Corner to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Howdy,

I have a 2012 Quarter that has some issues with the date. I'll let the pics speak for themselves.



2012-Quarter-Date---Debate---Whats-Its-Issue?


2012-Quarter-Date---Debate---Whats-Its-Issue?


2012-Quarter-Date---Debate---Whats-Its-Issue?
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argentum's Avatar
United States
1195 Posts
 Posted 08/13/2013  01:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add argentum to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You mean 2012 quarter.

A touch of doubling perhaps?
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skyshark124's Avatar
United States
1109 Posts
 Posted 08/13/2013  01:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add skyshark124 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If the problem with the 2013 quarter is that it says 2012 on it, you've got a true rarity there. :)
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Collector-Corner's Avatar
872 Posts
 Posted 08/13/2013  06:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Collector-Corner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, Yeah....... = )

It was after 1am when I posted this find. I am surprised I wasn't doubling everything I was saying and doing. = )

This coin is BUNC, the luster is quite bright and it was pretty difficult to get a decent shot of the doubling on the base of the coin.
I wanted to add another angled pic showing the bottom and top of the date as well, but me eyes were crossed and the lighting for the microscope camera wasn't cooperating.

This one may merit sending in to be looked over.

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NathanASE's Avatar
United States
1511 Posts
 Posted 08/13/2013  10:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NathanASE to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yup slight doubling, but unfortionitely I don't think it would warrant a trip to be graded/attributed or such. To me it looks like Strike Doubling (also known as "shelf doubling, Machine Doubling") which varies much from the much rarer, valuable & sought after doubled dies. I assume you know the difference in the types of doubling but for anyone who doesn't here's a link describing the differences.. It can be quite confusing and leads many people to believe there coin with Strike Doubling is worth something more than it is.. As unfortionitely Strike Doubling is quite common and not valuable at all.

http://www.coinbidders.com/Strike%2...0-%20PDF.pdf

I could be wrong, I'm definitley not an expert in doubling.. And as mentioned doubling is a confusing matter, to me it looks like Strike Doubling, but someone with more experience in the matter will hopefully chime in...
Edited by NathanASE
08/13/2013 10:20 am
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Collector-Corner's Avatar
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 Posted 08/13/2013  10:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Collector-Corner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
yep, I know the difference.
I use this site, both for my quick reference and for others that have questions;
http://www.errorvariety.com/OFD/MD.html

My concern is that the lower doubling is covered up by the top, and there does not appear to be that "step" or shelf looking doubling associated with Machine Doubling.

The height of the "2" doubling is really close to the same height. That "tail" extension of the "2" is pretty evident, and the top left quardrant of the "2" is oddly shaped.
The "1" doubling is slight, but the bottom "1" is significantly higher and to the right of the top "1", which is sort of unusual. I'll have to take a better look at the top left portion of the "1" to see if the bottom strike shows up on the base of the coin.

For me, sending a coin in for $30.00 to get a grade and a possible mint error designation is worth the effort, especially if the error is something that does not happen that often.
I have a membership with NGC and soon with PCGS, so its relatively easy to do.

Edited by Collector-Corner
08/13/2013 10:43 am
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
189340 Posts
 Posted 08/13/2013  12:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I changed the title and original post to reflect that this is a 2012.

I also moved the topic to the 'US Modern Variety and Error Coins' forum so it might be seen by more of the V/E regulars.
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Collector-Corner's Avatar
872 Posts
 Posted 08/13/2013  1:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Collector-Corner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the assist.
Being that I am not a mod, I found that step difficult to do.
That and I don't know this software. I use Invision Power Board for my forums.

Soon I will be armed with ample sleep and a set of refocused eyes and I will attempt a few more pics of this coin. If any promising Pictures come out, I will post them.
Edited by Collector-Corner
08/13/2013 1:34 pm
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Jayman931's Avatar
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2651 Posts
 Posted 08/13/2013  4:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jayman931 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hmmm...it reminds me of some of the old Wheat Doubled Dies. It is very interesting and it is definitely not Machine Doubling. I'll wait for some experts to chime in but it is promising.
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Collector-Corner's Avatar
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 Posted 08/13/2013  7:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Collector-Corner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am up to 3 or 4 that have the same odd look. Maybe I bought the right bag at the right time and it contains a handful of these, and then the Mint fixed the issue shortly after

I have yet to finish searching the bag I bought. I am about 20% through it. The Hawaii Volcanoes one. I bought a bag in hopes to get a GEM BU roll out of the bag and then send the rest bank to the bank.

Not so fast. I have a LOT of the coins with extra metal. Some look like parts of the volcano on the surface rim where the printing goes. Some of the metal is thin ribbon looking, others look like chunky asteroids.

More to follow.
Edited by Collector-Corner
08/13/2013 7:38 pm
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 08/14/2013  12:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
When you get a final tally of them, take images of each one exactly at the same angle and see if they are an exact match. I usually place them vertically to see if there is a slight difference. On a couple of rolls I found examples of different Machine Doubling. I put them into a collage to show how they were different, thus Machine Doubling.
https://www.coincommunity.com/forum..._To_Coin.jpg

QUESTION: Is the date incuse? It so Machine Doubling acts differently than when they are raised.
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Collector-Corner's Avatar
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 Posted 08/14/2013  07:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Collector-Corner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
These are newer Quarters, not pennies. I understand what Machine Doubling is and I appreciate the info. My son and I are preparing the best affected coins for shipment to NGC. One of the coins has the entire "E Pluribus Unum " doubled. The "P" "R" and "B" are impressive. Some of the Denali Quarters I have hit, portions of the doubling exceed 20% spread between the letters, mainly North-to-South.

I like the Extra Metal I have seen on the Quarters, especially the Hawaii Volcanoes. Some look like Asteroids, others like spears through 2 or 3 letters. Crazy.
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Jayman931's Avatar
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 Posted 08/14/2013  1:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jayman931 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I wouldn't get ahead of myself and send them in.

Coop- I am pretty sure the date is raised incuse (the pictures are very deceiving). I said (in my above post) that this definitely is not MD....Was I wrong? I guess because it is incused that on the die it is raised...thus when the die shifts during the striking process it can leave two incuse devices. I guess that makes sense. I try to give solid advice to people. This doesn't look like any MD I have ever seen. But I never thought about how it would look on a incuse device.
Edited by Jayman931
08/14/2013 1:26 pm
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NathanASE's Avatar
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 Posted 08/14/2013  2:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NathanASE to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I guess I should have been more clear, coop's 100% right, incuse Strike Doubling looks different than the norm.. I thought the link I posted had an example but I guess I should have checked first.. I must be thinking of another site..

I'm not trying to be a "know it all" or a downer, I think its great your going through these with your son, I'm just trying to explain it the best I can and I'm still learning myself. I just checked my album and 2 folders and many of the quarters exhibit what your seeing, mainly the 2012/2013 issues, and more so the P's, not as many on the D or S circulation strikes. I haven't checked my proofs yet. But the state, the date and E Pluribus Unum are most effected.. The most on Denali and volcanos. Some of mine are completely doubled. Again I'm 99% positive it's Strike Doubling.

We just closed on our new house a few weeks ago & I don't even have Internet hooked up yet, just using my iPhone, so I can't upload the pics I took with my USB cam.. Here's a P danali with e Pluribus Unum completely and heavily doubled.. Best pic I can get with my phone and loupe.

2012-Quarter-Date---Debate---Whats-Its-Issue?

I would never dream of telling someone how to spend their money.. If you have a few gem examples you want graded anyways by all means send them in, but it seems its pretty common among these issues and is almost certainly Strike Doubling..

I'm really not trying to be a jerk, I feel horrible every time a situation like this comes up... and I would absolutely love it if I'm proved wrong and it's remotely valuable, as most of my 3 sets show it.. And again I think it's great your going through these with your son, I just don't want either of you getting your hopes up on something am fairly certain about..
Edited by NathanASE
08/14/2013 3:38 pm
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 08/14/2013  9:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would hold on to these for now. I usually recommend this till you know for sure on something that may be a new doubling that we are not aware of. I'm thinking it is Machine Doubling that showed as enlarged doubling, when it really isn't a doubled die. The incuse design coins look different that the hub doubled ones we are searching for. So for now, I'd keep them.

Well all need corrections at times, so don't sweat it if you are wrong occasionally.

I've seen example of enlarged VDB on cents that were machine doubled. Is there any other area that show Machine Doubling?
Edited by coop
08/14/2013 9:32 pm
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Collector-Corner's Avatar
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 Posted 08/15/2013  12:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Collector-Corner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This one is far less impressive that the Denali's and the Hawaii Volcanoes we have found. Those are super jacked up. I know there are a FEW collectors that search for extra metal coins, and the bag of Hawaii Volcanoes produced us a roll of extra metal quarters that are impressive to say the least.

As for the above coin, I have no issues with anyone's comments ! I appreciate all, but I personally try to stay focused on the specific matter at hand. Its a trait of mine. Being a CISSP and an Information Assurance Engineer, I dabble in Forensics from time to time and it bleeds into the way I look over coins.

We have alot of product to go through. My methodology is to sift through the masses and filter out the suspects. Once the entire amount of product is done, then I take the potential victims (coins) and scrutinize them. We've gone through 200 Kennedy halves, and a lot of Quarters - 100 Denali's, 100 White Mountain, and 100 Hawaii Volcanoes, with 300 more quarters to go. Only victims and one Gem BU roll of each are kept. Others get sent to the bank, and I order more. I keep up til either the eyeballs fall out, fingers fall off, safe is full or the bank is chuck full of coinage.
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