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Replies: 15 / Views: 1,908 |
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New Member
United States
36 Posts |
Greetings all! Loooong time lurker, first time poster. I've been asked by a friend of my wife to help inform them about silver coins. I think they are requesting info from one or more of the ads on TV. I think I would steer them to the LCS and purchase ASE bullion. I believe they charge spot+2. They could buy more or less as funds permit and not pay for shipping or "the service" Good strategy or am I missing something? *** Moved by Staff to a more appropriate forum. ***
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1903 Posts |
When it comes to bullion don't get trapped in the "spot+$" trap....you will find all sorts of bullion dealers with low premiums over spot....is the shipping that gets you. Always, always, always figure the shipping into the true cost of your investment. Is better to buy 10 ASEs at spot+$3 with free ship than to get the same ten at spot+$2 with a $19.95 shipping fee. If your local shop has ASEs at spot +2 and in stock I would be surprised they have them at that price reliably. Those must be bullion they bought locally....mint fresh coins are sold to the major dealers at spot +2 so unless your local shop is a major dealer, he would be losing money on those sales.
Edited by unholyroller 10/22/2013 9:27 pm
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Valued Member
United States
368 Posts |
ASE are always good investments.
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Valued Member
United States
201 Posts |
 in my opinion, spot + 2 is a good deal on any .999 silver if shipping doesn't come into play. My rule of thumb...I'm in the accumulation phase of this investment strategy - I hope like heck the price falls while I'm buying. Buy more tomorrow.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2311 Posts |
I strongly disagree with @schris252. American silver eagles have been loosing value like nothing. They might go back up but you'll end up tie your money up. It can take two years to make a profit worth it.
They're nice to own but not to invest a lot in.
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Valued Member
United States
315 Posts |
The ones on TV are mostly dishonest. I found one today, World Monetary Exchange. They took out a big ad in the local paper, claiming to sell unsearched, sealed bags of pennies from the US mint. Took about 3 seconds to find fraud claims all over the internet. People on here talk about the shopping channel's version, which is also a ripoff. Personally, I won't buy at silver at spot +2. You can get silverware at spot and I found a silverware guy willing to sell to me at smelter prices, e.g. 90% of spot. But, silver takes a heck of a lot of space. One troy ounce of silver is about 50% bigger than a troy ounce of gold. If you go by value, one troy ounce of gold is worth 61 ozt of silver, and that silver will take a ton of space. If you want bullion, check comparesilverprices.com. Currently, the best prices on silver bullion are Austrian Philharmonics. You can get ASE's on ebay for 24/each if you look for the ones selling in lots of five or more, and many include shipping.
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Valued Member
United States
71 Posts |
I always go with a nice blend of everything. I buy ASE's, 90%, and silver rounds. On the silver swings, I usually see what is selling the best or I can get the most value out of. I have found when silver takes hits, it is not quite as bad to sell silver eagles. I think their flow with the sliver swing is not as great as Silver rounds. When buying, I look to see what I can get the best deal on in relation to melt. Right or wrong, it is my strategy.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1903 Posts |
I disagree with the sentiment of ASEs not being a good investment. In fact...I am making more money on a percentage basis now than I did when it was hovering in the $40/ounce range. Being that regardless of the spot price, the mint charges the same premium over spot...so if I buy up some local ASEs at spot ( which I do regularly ) from private individuals, I can then quickly turn them at spot+$2 or $3. At $22 an ounce $2 profit is a roughly 9% profit. At $40 and ounce that same $2 profit is only 5%. In a down trending market it is all about turning the investment fast. In an up market is when you hold onto it. Investment 101.
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Valued Member
United States
315 Posts |
Flipping it is not investing in it.
Actually investment 101 is buy low, sell high, exactly the opposite of what you said.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1903 Posts |
Huh? The term "investing" is buying with the intent of making a profit...be it 100 years or 100 seconds....and people make plenty of money buying high and selling low...google "short sale". And how is what I said the opposite? My illustration explains how I bought at $22 and sold at $24 and generated a HIGHER profit percentage than I did when silver was at $40 with the same $2 profit. The term "investing" has no distinct requirement to hold onto the asset for some minimum time. Many of the wealthiest people in the world invest in stocks of which they hold onto for less than a few seconds. It is all termed "investing"
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11951 Posts |
I would stay away from the TV sellers. When you are buying local, there are several factors to consider. - In most cases, buy what ever is the closest price to spot or under spot. - Also consider what you will get when you sell. -- in my area ASE will have a higher premium over 90% or .999 bullion (bars/rounds), but they will buy the ASE's back at a higher price. In my experience there is around a $4.00 swing on all the above, just at different price points. For example, with silver at $22.00 per oz. ASE would sell at $26.00, LCS would buy ASE's at $22.00 90% would sell at $18.00 X face and buy $14.00 Bars/rounds sell at $24.00 buy at $20.00 Again .. factor in what the sell back price is. - Another factor could be taxes. Here in Florida there is tax on bullion purchases, but not on U.S. coins (ASE/90%) Of course this is if you are buying from a LCS, check your state tax laws .. and factor that in. I should mention that in Florida, if you buy over $500.00 in bullion there is no tax, ... who writes these laws. From my experience there are three main groups that purchases bullion. - Investment. For this group silver would need to increase $4.00 per oz. to break even. - Insurance against bad economy. This group seems happy to move money from CD/stocks/savings to silver. As a sort of insurance against severe loss in the stock markets or collapse of the U.S. dollar. - Accumulators. This group make purchases of silver weekly/monthly in efforts to put funds away long term. Maybe for college or retirement funds. To sum this up, the prices I use are what I see local to me. You should be able to find out what the buy/sell prices are for your area .. or where you are going to buy and sell, to figure out what the best deal for you. FYI --- someone mentioned buying silverware. I agree that it can be purchased at a lower price. But in my experience when you go to sell, you may only get 60 to 70 percent of spot.
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote: The term "investing" is buying with the intent of making a profit...be it 100 years or 100 seconds Agreed, theres short term and long term investments. With that said unless you have the ability to flip them like roller does buying at spot they really arent a good investment right now. The wait for a value increase to sell higher ship sailed about 2 years ago. Theres still ups and downs you can play the waves with but its incredibly hard to do if you dont own a shop with physical silver. In terms of pure investment metals just arent very good. Even if spot doubles in 20 years thats 20 years you had to wait on it, the return on a good dividend stock with modest gains would almost certainly be better. If it was as easy as TV made it sound everyone would do it. If they do really want to invest in it though the silver ETFs are the best route. You can buy and sell for a flat 10 dollars each time and its done in seconds. You dont have to worry about trying to unload physical metals during a price crash that no one would want to buy at the moment and you dont pay the premiums that you do for physical metals.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1903 Posts |
One thing that has not been mentioned is how silver typically behaves...I say typically, because things aren't always 100% predictable. But TYPICALLY even in times like now with silver in a down trend...people will buy silver/gold as a hedge against a downturn in the economy. What that means is people invest in a position in silver as sort of an insurance policy against the economy tanking or the stock market crashing. On average when either of these two do poorly, precious metals go up. This then gives you a bit of protection on your investment portfolio ( precious metals not being 100% of your total investment portfolio). There are all sorts of arguments to be made about precious metals being a good/bad investment, it all boils down to how much risk tolerance you have, how much time you have to invest, how much time you are willing to devote to managing it, and what goal you are trying to achieve....it is a personal choice.
Edited by unholyroller 10/23/2013 08:18 am
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Valued Member
United States
477 Posts |
"Guns and Butter"
Paying a little more for guns is still better than a good deal on butter.
Rick
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New Member
 United States
36 Posts |
Thanks for the responses! I believe this is more for the "insurance against the economy" then actual investment. I'm thinking they are looking at a "Lear Capital" type advertisement, I'll have to see what info they bring me when we get together to discuss options. Lots of good info to consider here. BTW my LCS website advertises silver rounds and bars for spot+2, not sure if that includes ASE, but does buy ASE at spot+1 (doesn't sound like much profit)
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2543 Posts |
Bars and rounds are generally bought at spot and sold at a small profit. If your LCS shop is selling ASE's at spot + $1 , it is because they bough them from someone else at below spot. If they are an Authorized Purchaser from the mint, they buy them from the mint at spot +$2, there is no way they sell them at spot +2
Edited by denco7 10/23/2013 9:55 pm
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Replies: 15 / Views: 1,908 |
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