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 Replies: 65 / Views: 7,205 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1461 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
972 Posts |
Tough coin to find in any grade. MS "Details" (hairlines).Thanks for sharing.  |
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Pillar of the Community
1844 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5417 Posts |
AU-58 Details. Surface hairlines. What a beauty.
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Bedrock of the Community
Canada
11922 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
9868 Posts |
MS60
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
I can't see any wear, but it is obviously scuffed.
MS60.
Thanks for honest photos.
Actually, I think that is is quite a desirable coin!
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
1461 Posts |
Thanks for the feedback all. I've had an opportunity to look at an ICCS graded AU55 and coin that exhibited similar minor hairlines and graded without details. It's definitely a borderline coin. This picture is taken with a 60mm macro lens that amplifies and shows absolutely everything. The hairline marks you see are in select areas of the coin and likely from a single wipe long ago and not really visible without 10x magnification coin in hand. From a grade stand point this coin is definitely in the MS range. Every AU coin I've seen thus far has much more wear at 7/8 o'clock below the year.
Edited by TheCoinHunter
10/25/2013 1:57 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2495 Posts |
No borderline issues with me.
Definitely an MS coin (wear wise) and definitely cleaned (harshly, I might add).
ICCS will net grade this (although they say they never net grade) an ef45 or au50.
PCGS would grade this Unc details.
Edited by doubleeagle59
10/25/2013 6:12 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1461 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2495 Posts |
TCH....you're right, 'harshly cleaned' is incorrect, I should have said 'harshly hairlined'.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1461 Posts |
Not even harshly hairlined...Slightly hairlined at best....lol..
Edited by TheCoinHunter
10/25/2013 8:19 pm
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Valued Member
83 Posts |
There's no way this coin should be assigned a Mint State grade, because the hairling on it occurred from circulation - it is no longer in the "state" that it left the "mint". It is a very nice example however and I'd give it a solid AU-55, maybe even AU-58. The example you showed from dealer listing is in my opinion incorrectly graded, and should be AU-50, NOT AU-55. Which brings up another interesting phenomenon  which rarely gets mention. Ever notice how the dealers / sellers who send lots of coins into "un-named 3rd party graders", (keeping in mind already inconsistent grading,) seem to generally tend to get preferential treatment, often a step above what similar condition coin gets when sent in by a non-volume user of their service. Just sayin' :) |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1461 Posts |
Well, we can keep discarding every grade service across North America for one reason or another. Be it preferred treatment, overgrading, undergrading, lack of knowledge and a few others. Pretty much every grading mechanism has been bashed here for one reason or another. Of course when coins are bought they're always 2 grades less then when they're sold. Then we can argue who read what book on grading. Keep in mind there are 11 MS grades on the scale (even more if you add mid grades) and not every uncirculated coin is an MS70. By your definition a large cent that lost all or part of it's colour could not be graded in the MS range. Here is ANA's defenition of MS 60 +++++"A coin graded MS-60 will be unattractive, dull, or washed-out mint luster may mark this coin. There may be many large detracting contact marks, or damage spots, but no trace of circulation wear. There could be a heavy concentration of hairlines, or unattractive large areas of scuff marks. Rim nicks may be present, and eye appeal is very poor. Copper coins may be dark, dull, and spotted.+++ Just sayin' Edited by TheCoinHunter
10/25/2013 8:52 pm
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Valued Member
83 Posts |
Not sayin' that we should "discard" grading services. But suggesting that it is important, especially for newcomers to the hobby, to understand that 3rd party grading services should be scrutinized with analytical skepticism - and not be just blindly & naively accepted as being right in their certification of genuiness and assignation of grade. Graders are human and therefore fallible - and the companies are running businesses for the purpose of making the most profit possible - and they don't spend much time examining most of the coins that they offer their opinions on. And that's the point - they are just opinions, and not necessarily any more valid than any experienced collector. You mis-quoted me with regards to the opinion I expressed - I am in agreement with ANA, that "unattractive, dull, or washed-out mint luster" may make the bottom-rung MS-60 designation - but certainly no higher. My "definition" as previously mentioned, is that coins which receive marks after leaving the mint are no longer "mint state". |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1461 Posts |
No one here or the industry would disagree with the "buy the coin not the holder" theory. Although I disagree that every coin professionally graded needs to be knocked down 4 grades. With respect to your definition, bag marks are an accepted characteristic of MS coins. That characteristic is frequently caused by post mint handling (either through coins being bagged or during transport). Toning on silver coins or loss of colour on copper coins can occur without the coin being "circulated". Theoretically hairlines can be achieved through a bag rub during transport. So what's the cutoff for "circulation"?. Although you may interpret the graded scale in it's purest definition, the industry accepts certain standards when it comes to the scale. Those standards include above imperfections at MS.
Edited by TheCoinHunter
10/25/2013 9:34 pm
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Replies: 65 / Views: 7,205 |
Posted 10/24/2013 7:44 pm
