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 Replies: 20 / Views: 3,432 |
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Valued Member
83 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5417 Posts |
Both are pretty similar grade wise but the second one is a weak strik so I'd net grade it lower. For me both are VF30-35ish.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3234 Posts |
I'm such a sucker for these........better not be another spoof on us here.... The lower coins Obv legend "seems" to be sharper and indicates less wear than the upper coins Obv legend. The lower bun in her hair has more detail in the bottom coin too. I have to admit that I've never seen such weakness or wear or damage as showing in that bottom crown. My 5c 1858 LD also has a lot of weakness down the Rev center. Would this be considered a Sheldon moment here as in..."It's a trap"..?..  |
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Bedrock of the Community
Canada
11922 Posts |
1) VF-35.
2) VF-25.
They do look to have weaker strikes, but there is obviously a difference of wear on the crowns.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
9865 Posts |
VF30
VF20
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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Valued Member
 83 Posts |
  While I'm used to seeing and accept that PCGS generally assigns grades higher than ICCS or most of us would assign re "Canadian" standards for grading - what frustrates me is regardless of the company, there can be so much variance in assignment of grades.
If I'm paying someone / or using their professional opinion as advice on an investment, I just think that the opinion should have some consistency.
My opinion on grade for first example would be a solid VF-35+, maybe EF40. Second coin warrants VF-25, maybe a borderline VF30.
I would say there is / should be about a $400 to $500 difference in retail sale value between the coins.
Regardless of what we might arm-wrestle over as to our opinion of grade on either one of these coins - both of these coins being assigned the same grade by a "professional" grading company is an unacceptable mistake.
And it does impact the buyer / collector who naively and foolishly buys the "package" and isn't informed enough or doesn't take enough time to judge state of coin themselves.
These coins sold at auction one after the other bringing only a difference of $50 in bid. Whoever bought the second one paid way to much in my opinion.
Scott's Canadian Coins |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3234 Posts |
Well I would disagree with you on your grading Scott. There is a huge difference in the strike of those 2 and that is considered and reflected in the assigned grades.
You could easily discount the weaker strike because it quickly looks like a lower grade,..but the grade could remain high.
I have a very high grade 5 cents with a very similar weak reverse. The 1858 RP3 in the LD 5 cents is a similar example of great central weakness in the die and subsequent coins struck...my 2c...
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Edited by DEVLEC
11/08/2013 12:42 pm
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Valued Member
83 Posts |
@ DEVLEC
Just because a coin has a "weaker strike" does not in my opinion offer an excuse for not assigning a lower grade, and in fact expert grading standards should incorporate strike and eye appeal into assignment of grade.
One of the perceived purposes of paying for 3rd party grading, aside from certifying as being "genuine", is to provide an opinion that should hold up in the market place
Many buyers unfortunately put far too much confidence in the mistaken belief that there is reliable consistency in 3rd party grading and that the grade will be accurate - and then bid accordingly - only to find out somewhere down the road they've paid far too much for "the package".
So DEVLEC, you're sayin' then you'd be happy to pay the same for either one of these coins 
My nickels worth  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
I don't see much difference in the obverses and could argue that the second one actually has better hair detail, particularly along the forehead. Whether they both deserve XF I don't know - that's a huge bump in trend value.
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Valued Member
83 Posts |
I agree with you that the second coin has areas of detail in hair that are better represented than that of the first coin.
Anyone can "argue" and or compare the particular merits of any coin against another - but you can't just pick out ONE facet of the coin, such as degree of hair detail, in comparing or assigning grade.
The whole coin must be examined and assessed, and all observations condensed into the final grade assignment.
And, most importantly, proper grading assessment includes more than just technical details - it is a combination of details, surface preservation, presence of lustre, and eye-appeal.
Again, I pose the question - Would you be happy to pay the same for either one of these coins
And, if we flipped a coin over them, and you got to choose first - which one would you take? |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3234 Posts |
If I had to chose between them,... and therefore looking for the higher graded coin,..
......I would then choose the bottom 84....and that's because I feel that the bottom 84 has "a touch" less wear..
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Valued Member
Canada
220 Posts |
I'll take the 2nd obverse with the 1st reverse, can I do that?  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3234 Posts |
I would say that you may...do that here.....  Scott has spoofed us a bit before and has mixed up some reverses and obverses to test us... and keep the experts here on their toes.. I didn't realize the change-up until some others mentioned it.. Anyway..84's are always so rare ..in any shape of form... |
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Valued Member
83 Posts |
@ DEVLEC
You've mentioned twice in this post, and again in another post that you feel I was "spoofing" when I put up this post - this WAS NOT my intent ! 
I was "fooled" by what appeared to me to be a listing with a counterfeit coin - and did not pick up on the fact that obverse and reverse were images of different coins until someone obviously more alert than either you or I was able to distinguish it.
The listing was on ebay, and was posted out of Minnesota, by a new lister - I had several contacts with him in an attempt to get coin from him - and had email contact with nickelsguy re me forwarding this coin to him if I got it.
The guy pulled listing and disappeared off of radar.
Scott's Canadian CoinsStaff Edit - Obnoxious manual signature removed. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1949 Posts |
I honestly would love to own either of those coins!- As far as the whole TPG grading thing, everyone here who has dealt with higher end grade coins knows that no two coins are exactly alike, and 2 coins with the same technical grade could look so far different from one another that there could be a wide range of prices paid for the same grade coin. So much of all of this is personal preference and opinion. There are AU55's and 58's I find to be far more appealing than an MS60-62. I personally prefer toned coins and would pay a premium for them, while others prefer their higher grade coins to be blast white and would pay a premium for them. Everyone here, even if they have a preferred grading company, will admit that there are coins they have seen where they have no idea how on earth the coin was graded so high. Along the same lines, we have all seen coins that were clearly undergraded, and perhaps broke them out to try and get them the grade they deserved. I personally on this one agree with Scott, that I prefer the above one, but that's just my preference. I would be happy with either one in my collection, and I have definitely seen far bigger disparities in coins graded the same. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3234 Posts |
Scott...I thought that you did it on purpose...to test the experts here..of which I'm not one of ......My mistake..  .. .. .Glad that you have now mentioned that it was not on purpose......All is much clearer now....  .. Scott..Thanks for posting the great poppies flag...My dad was one of those injured vets and thanks to all of them we can play with our coins and hang out here... Edited by DEVLEC
11/10/2013 7:26 pm
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Replies: 20 / Views: 3,432 |
Posted 11/06/2013 6:51 pm
