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Extreme Lamination Holes Or PMD?

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robmck1967's Avatar
Canada
870 Posts
 Posted 12/31/2013  10:59 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add robmck1967 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
any thoughts on these? in the first and second picture the middle nickel is irrelevant. it is just there for colour comparison.

are they extreme examples of lamination holes or are they altered somehow? does anyone else remember seeing coins like this? one is really extreme compared to the other. I know there is one more nickel just like them that falls in between that is still with the guy I bought them from. all 3 are George V nickels. I bought them in a lot of 4 coins for $20.00 and the other 2 coins are https://goccf.com/t/163380 (possible penny on foreign planchet) and https://goccf.com/t/165314 (split planchet). both of those coins are looking legit so maybe these could be significant too.

please send your thoughts and comments. thanks everyone and happy new year!

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pennysaver's Avatar
Canada
937 Posts
 Posted 12/31/2013  11:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pennysaver to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not thinking PMD -- the holes are all in lines like striations. I'm thinking faulty metal mixture somehow, IMHO.
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CoinCollector2000's Avatar
United States
2563 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2014  12:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinCollector2000 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Pennysaver, you do have a point. I'm not sure what to call it
Valued Member
chwkboy's Avatar
Canada
118 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2014  01:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chwkboy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is PMD, I have found a few of these nickels when I metal detect. In some areas the soil is acidic enough to do this to nickels as well as other coins. Definitely not a manufacturing problem!
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Alexer's Avatar
Canada
2632 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2014  01:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alexer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I say PMD too. I see no evidence of metal flowing into the damaged areas.
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Scissel's Avatar
Canada
693 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2014  09:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Scissel to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The first coin looks really cool - you can see the striated structure of the metal in the planchet. But the pitting and discoloration indicate the coins have been subjected to severe PMD (environmental / acid damage). Return them to the seller & get your money back if you can.
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robmck1967's Avatar
Canada
870 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2014  10:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add robmck1967 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thanks for all your comments. kep them coming! I won't be returning them to the seller because I think I still got the better end of the deal with the other two coins I purchased from him. 1 is a Canadian penny on a foreign planchet (waiting for rxf testing results) and the other is a split planchet error. I only paid $20 for all four coins. And I did purchase them as unknown errors or counterfeit.
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pennysaver's Avatar
Canada
937 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2014  1:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pennysaver to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi robmck

There used to be a process called "patenation", if I recall correctly, in which underground alkalyne salts and cyanides would dissolve certain minerals from ground ore, leaving other minerals behind and looking rather "spongely"-looking, similar to your coins. Gold and copper were often recovered in this manner dating from the time of the romans to as late as the 1600's, as these very porous ores ended up containing a much-higher grade of base metal, especially desirable in the days when refining techniques were not as good as we have today. If your coins have been buried at some time or exposed to certain environmental damage, then that might leave those unexplained holes. True, I may be wrong (won't be the first time!), but the reason I lean toward any explanation along these lines is that the holes in your coins don't look like any man-made/road rash/shop project gone wrong type of a deal. Notice how the holes are very organic-looking, as if the missing material was leached away naturally as opposed to being forcibly removed by some other method. I believe chwkboy and Scissel are correct when they say acidic/environmental damage, but I do believe that the metal was not mixed properly prior to the minting process, causing the striations, or else you would have holes in just random spots and blotches on the coin and would tend to see more surface damage. At any rate I would keep the coins, if for no other reason than they are rather neat-looking! Sweet find for the price you paid!
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Alexer's Avatar
Canada
2632 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2014  5:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alexer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Pennysaver- I completely appreciate what your saying and agree with you for the most part but these coins are 100% nickel leading me to believe this damage is not due to improper metal mix. But you never know, who really knows what was going on at the mint in the late 20s and 30s. Looks acidic from being buried and one of them was straight up and down thus causing the rim to go first....maybe lol
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pennysaver's Avatar
Canada
937 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2014  8:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pennysaver to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi pennyman

Yeah, I always thought that the nickels were 100% nickel too, so I hear what you're saying. I just couldn't figure out what else would cause those marks to be like that. I agree an acid or some such thing was the cause of it, but I don't know how pure "100%" actually was back then. I've got some nice "woody" pennies, which actually are an alloy, but didn't know if the same fluctuation of nickel could take place or not. I wish I had one, it looks pretty cool.
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Alexer's Avatar
Canada
2632 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2014  10:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alexer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Want to hear something weird..the metal nickel used to make coins did not come from this planet, its also one of the most corrosion resistant metals there is, although it will oxidize. Read this for yourself - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel
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robmck1967's Avatar
Canada
870 Posts
 Posted 01/03/2014  2:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add robmck1967 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
great conversation piece these turned out to be...nickels from space!! that's awesome!

so the acidic environmental conditions comment sounds very plausible. and I agree that the way the metal is eaten away is very organic in some regards but is also inorganic in the way the striations run in the same direction. and the nickels being buried would probably explain the darker colour and the fact that there were three like this in a group. each of the 3 showed a different amount of progression in the amount of missing metal.

if there was an impurity in the nickel, it would stand to reason that when they rolled the nickel into sheets, it would have been rolled in one direction which would have stretched the impurity into the striations.

so the question is...if you buried 100 George V nickels in the right soil, would they all deteriorate in a similar fashion? or would only a few with impurities show the deterioration?
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pennysaver's Avatar
Canada
937 Posts
 Posted 01/04/2014  08:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pennysaver to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Cool article, pennyman. I guess all our collections are rather "cosmic" now, eh?

Robmck: I'm guessing that only those nickels with impurities would show similar effects, although I've seen other types of minor surface damage on old nickels that I'm sure was caused by them being buried for years. Maybe do a test batch and dig it up in 50 years or so? (lol)
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gunnern79's Avatar
Canada
34 Posts
 Posted 01/21/2015  8:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gunnern79 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
looks similar to mine

Extreme-Lamination-Holes-Or-PMD?

Extreme-Lamination-Holes-Or-PMD?

Extreme-Lamination-Holes-Or-PMD?
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Wade's Avatar
Canada
2781 Posts
 Posted 01/21/2015  9:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
alien nickel, I like it

Extreme-Lamination-Holes-Or-PMD?
Valued Member
coin_kid's Avatar
United States
381 Posts
 Posted 01/21/2015  9:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coin_kid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
alien nickel, I like it

Where did you get that? Sweet coin!
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