Show Us Your Worst Counterfeit!

Thank you for your analysis on the 1756 Mo MM, swamperbob. I bought this from colonialjohn on one of his ebay auctions as a CC but he refunded me and let me keep the coin after realeswatcher contacted him and provided evidence of more recent numismatic forgery. I now have a coin with detailed XRF alloy composition to use as a benchmark for testing my skills at calculating specific gravity.

Dorado Another Numismatic Forgery made only to fool collectors that should not be referred to as a Counterfeit. These sold at one time in Hong Kong for $1 each and as little as 10 cents in large (over 1000) coin orders.

jgenn It is good to hear that John refunded your money because a Numismatic Forgery IMO is worth at most $5 over melt value. At one time, John viewed NF types as collectable on a lower level, but worth collecting. We had several discussions about that topic since my position has long been that they are nearly worthless. I do however have thousands of examples.

My answer about the "sculpted" coin is that I believe it is more than likely a modern copy (Numismatic Forgery) made to satisfy a small collector market that developed in the 1970's after Calbetto published his "Compendium of the Eight Reales". Calbetto was one of the first to display a picture of these carved coins.

Many collectors are intrigued by these alterations (like I am) and the market developed to a point where fakes could be made at a profit. Instead of being treated as culls (as they were at one time), the prices rose to where a nicely carved piece will bring in excess of $100. In my opinion several of the more recent examples to hit the market do not show genuine traits.

Initially I was of the opinion that thee caricatures were always carved on non-Mexican coins (Peruvian seem common). However, I have seen examples of significant age carved into genuine Mexican 8Rs as well as Bolivian and Peruvian so apparently all mints were targeted.

Here the problem as I see it is the age of the host coin. As was point out correctly above the edge is wrong for a genuine 8R in the early 1800's. I believe it is likely a Class 2 Silver Counterfeit meant to circulate in China.

The problem with that is the most likely origin for the coins was as a protest arising from the replacement of Charles IV with Ferdinand VII in 1808 by Napoleon. If that belief is correct then there was no point in making these coins after the 1820's. The silver counterfeits were all made after that point in time.

So I would suggest a test of the host coin using XRF (handheld gun type is OK) to see if there is enough gold present in the host coin to suggest a date before 1850.

If you notice there is a gap 1820 -1850. That gap can not at this point in time be closed. There were Class 2 silver counterfeits made in England from 1820 to 1850 but these contain natural gold as well. What a no gold reading would prove is that the host was made after 1850 and possibly in the US. Those were shipped to China where there was no incentive to carve a new head on the coin.

I hope that is clear to people reading this post. As always ask any questions to make sure you understand the discussion.

1862 US.
One dollar.





No explanation is necessary , I bought those fake coins to see the way they are made.(from China)

Rare currency Louis XVI shield 1785 R Orleans, vintage fake rare

(Rare monnaie Louis XVI ecu 1785 R Orleans, faux d'epoque rare)

What is your opinion about this one ?





On the right side, the original coin
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Great ecu Dorado! They've managed to make the olive branches look like kelp.

It looks like plated copper. How much does it weigh?