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Pine Tree Shilling Copy?

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Author Previous TopicReplies: 11 / Views: 3,708Next Topic  
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treeguy's Avatar
United States
3 Posts
 Posted 02/11/2014  5:02 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add treeguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Using a metal detector in SC found this 1652 Massachusetts Pine Tree Shilling this is most likely a copy but cannot see copy written on it. It is very thin as you can see. Just wondering what you think? If an early copy any value?

Pine-Tree-Shilling-Copy?

Pine-Tree-Shilling-Copy?

Pine-Tree-Shilling-Copy?
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philadelphian's Avatar
United States
3253 Posts
 Posted 02/11/2014  8:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add philadelphian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Welcome!
I'm not seeing a Pine Tree, but an Oak Tree. The letter and number positions on the reverse (the dated side for these) seems so close to the Crosby D reverse (used on Noe-4, 5, and 6), that I get the feeling it's a freehand copy of a Noe-5. But I just can't say it's exactly the same. What about it makes you think it's a copy? Other than not thinking your luck could be that good!
Edited by philadelphian
02/11/2014 8:19 pm
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vermontensium's Avatar
United States
16679 Posts
 Posted 02/11/2014  8:31 pm  Show Profile   Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Welcome to the CCF treeguy.
It has the hallmarks of a genuine coin. Finding it with a detector makes it that much more probable.
I would send this coin to NGC. Do you have a weight?
swcoin.ecrater.com
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 02/12/2014  11:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The lettering font seems odd to me, but if this is a copy it is NOT a modern one, and I think there is a fair chance it is real. (Frankly the fact that it is thin is a good sign, most copies are thicker than the genuine coins.)
Edited by Conder101
02/12/2014 11:13 am
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amida17's Avatar
United States
4897 Posts
 Posted 02/12/2014  11:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add amida17 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with all above. Certainly worth the effort to send in to a TPG.
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philadelphian's Avatar
United States
3253 Posts
 Posted 02/12/2014  12:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add philadelphian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Think I've got it!
Here's a genuine Noe-5 oak tree shilling. Notice how the G and L angle away from each other, and the center angle of the W meets at the top with a small inverted triangle. Treeguy's coin differs at these features, and the circles of dots are quite different.

Pine-Tree-Shilling-Copy?
Now check out this 2010 thread from another forum, where two identical counterfeit shillings (that are clearly copied from Noe-5, given the upswept lower branches on the tree) were found in a Texas shop. I think we have a third here.
http://www.cointalk.com/threads/165...fake.145014/
And here's the exact template of treeguy's replica, still being made, and on sale on a replica site for $1.90:
http://www.coinsofourpast.com/coinp...hilling.html
Edited by philadelphian
02/12/2014 12:22 pm
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treeguy's Avatar
United States
3 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2014  3:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add treeguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Philadelphian affair you may be right, maybe its an old copy, hate to spend to verify a two dollar coin. Thanks!
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solotime's Avatar
United States
2311 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2014  5:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add solotime to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Huh, no one said anything about taking it to a coin shop. I would think maybe the guy can give you some information on it if he's NICE.
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rachums107's Avatar
United States
3345 Posts
 Posted 02/18/2014  10:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rachums107 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
But would an original rust like that? I may be wrong but it certainly looks like the coin in question is rusty, which would lead me to believe that its not made of silver and therefore a copy.
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colonialjohn's Avatar
United States
1757 Posts
 Posted 02/19/2014  08:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add colonialjohn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is a tough one ... sometimes burial patina can show this effect on silver which in this picture seems to suggest high copper. This piece is worth sending to a TPG house not a coin shop. Even pictures to Stacks/Bowers as an E-Mail. Does it have a coin ring? Supply/post its weight in grams or grains here.
Edited by colonialjohn
02/19/2014 08:13 am
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treeguy's Avatar
United States
3 Posts
 Posted 02/19/2014  08:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add treeguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No rust I think, more stain from red clay and there was some old mulch near it too. I would like to email it to someone just to get some idea. I think this a copy myself but there is no copy on it however I saw some post that said some were made in 50's and not called a copy. The ones you buy for $2 have copy stamped on them and I think are maybe thicker. I have no scale to weigh it. I will try to find metric scale and measure it.
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philadelphian's Avatar
United States
3253 Posts
 Posted 02/19/2014  09:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add philadelphian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Found it.
This approximation of a Noe-5 Oak Tree shilling is the work of Peter J. Rosa, an accomplished mid-20th-century maker of coin replicas. The same design is still in use at the firm created by his nephew, but it seems the earliest replicas he made preceded the laws now on the books that replicas be stamped with the word COPY. In fact, that was one of the reasons Rosa quit the business; he had wanted to put COPY on the edges of the replicas, so as not to "mar their beauty," but the the law required in on the face.
http://www.coinreplicas.com/1652-ma...ree-shilling
Edited by philadelphian
02/19/2014 09:59 am
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