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1836 Russian Family Rouble Coin

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Author Previous TopicReplies: 9 / Views: 3,965Next Topic  
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Pushthatbolder's Avatar
Australia
38 Posts
 Posted 02/26/2014  9:50 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Pushthatbolder to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Here is info on coin

Weighs 31.99 g. Silver (80% I believe)
i believe it is a 3rd die cut

(1st pair only 36coins)
(2nd pair only 50coins)
(3rd 150x coins)

Here is info on the rarity and value of real coins.
auctioning off from $45k-$650k

http://www.stacksbowers.com/NewsMed...of-1836.aspx

http://www.coinworld.com/articles/p...3-85-million

1836-Russian-Family-Rouble-Coin

and again more infomation on http://www.coinsweekly.com/en/Archi...d=144&type=a

and finally this is my coin,
i have compared to many fakes and it does not look similar,

the weight is also the same.

My family is of Russian heritage and have heard close to the monarch at the time of issue (1836)

this has been in family possession but do not know how long it has been there.

(notice the signiture is in initial form and not full name like the 1st and 2nd pair of dies. and not like the common fakes)

1836-Russian-Family-Rouble-Coin

1836-Russian-Family-Rouble-Coin


and these are the fakes I have found, and have noticed they are very not the same.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1836...1632622.html

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/FREE...3981742.html

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1836...3073367.html



Can I get a value for this coin?
Can someone help me with its authenticity?


UPDATE!!
Here is the Rim


1836-Russian-Family-Rouble-Coin
Edited by Pushthatbolder
02/26/2014 10:06 pm
Pillar of the Community
thq's Avatar
United States
3343 Posts
 Posted 02/27/2014  09:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thq to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This coin is so rare that it's probably not real. You need to send it to a grading service or an auction house such as Heritage to get a determination.

The reeded edge seems peculiar, especially on a coronation piece. I would have expected lettering but I'm no expert. Edit: here's an 1841 marriage piece with reeded edge

http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleN...tIdNo=291002

Here's another one for comparison that sold for $31,625 in 2008. Looks like the third die. Edge reeding is visible in one of the photos. Also a pronounced Die Cud at 5 o'clock on the empress side, which your coin does not have. Heritage's description says that this is a diagnostic, so it must be present for the novodel to be genuine.

http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleN...=22140#Photo
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
02/27/2014 10:12 am
Pillar of the Community
Australia
3831 Posts
 Posted 02/27/2014  09:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gxseries to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Send it to an expert. I don't think there are much experts here who can vouch for it's authencity. Chances are it looks reasonably good but I have my reservations. Best of luck.
My partial coin collection http://www.omnicoin.com/collection/gxseries
My numismatics articles and collection: http://www.gxseries.com/numis/numis_index.htm
Regularly updated at least once a month.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1666 Posts
 Posted 02/27/2014  11:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numismat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's an Eastern European copy. Sorry to say.
New Member
Pushthatbolder's Avatar
Australia
38 Posts
 Posted 02/27/2014  7:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pushthatbolder to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Numismat How do you know this? I would love to know

also, anybody know of a good coin grading service for this coin? somewhere I can get authenticity certificate done on it?
Valued Member
plonker's Avatar
United States
462 Posts
 Posted 02/28/2014  07:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add plonker to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There is a specialized Russian coin forum that you can check with,
http://www.coinpeople.com/index.php...-coin-forums

They have helped me couple of times on grading and die varieties of roubles.
Valued Member
Australia
243 Posts
 Posted 02/28/2014  07:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add enoilgam to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Since you're located in Australia, it's probably best to take it to Noble Numismatics. From memory, they sold a few similar ones at auction in 2012 - those coins sold to a Russian dealer who pretty much put insane opening bids to deter the competition and acquire them.

Again though, this is from memory, I'm not 100% sure.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1666 Posts
 Posted 03/02/2014  11:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numismat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Because the coin has all the markers of modern fakes made in Eastern Europe. The false patina, the crude nature of finer details such as the hair, and incorrect style of lettering (for example, the bottoms of the first two letters of ZLOT appear curved rather than straight with their serifs at sharp 90 degree angles).
Edited by Numismat
03/02/2014 11:04 pm
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coinworldtv's Avatar
Austria
566 Posts
 Posted 03/06/2014  1:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinworldtv to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
...too good to be true. To come along one of these is not easy as most of them are in established collections and not cheap.
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2014  02:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This particular forgery appears on ebay quite regularly. It does not require a Russian specialist to determine it is a relatively recent numismatic forgery.

The easiest way to spot the forgery is when the edge is shown. Notice the extremely irregular reeds.

But even when just the faces are visible there is a lack of sharpness and artificial toning that is very typical. Once you have seen a couple dozen of these they get very easy to spot.

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