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1983 DDO / DDR - Could I Have Finally Found One ?

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Valued Member

United States
122 Posts
 Posted 03/21/2014  12:41 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Cobia to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
1983 DDO / DDR - Could I have finally found one ?

1983-DDO/Ddr---Could-I-Have-Finally-Found-One-?

1983-DDO/Ddr---Could-I-Have-Finally-Found-One-?

1983-DDO/Ddr---Could-I-Have-Finally-Found-One-?

1983-DDO/Ddr---Could-I-Have-Finally-Found-One-?

1983-DDO/Ddr---Could-I-Have-Finally-Found-One-?

1983-DDO/Ddr---Could-I-Have-Finally-Found-One-?

1983-DDO/Ddr---Could-I-Have-Finally-Found-One-?

1983-DDO/Ddr---Could-I-Have-Finally-Found-One-?

1983-DDO/Ddr---Could-I-Have-Finally-Found-One-?

1983-DDO/Ddr---Could-I-Have-Finally-Found-One-?

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albertharris's Avatar
United States
901 Posts
 Posted 03/21/2014  12:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add albertharris to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not seeing any notching, just DDD. Photos more in focus would help.
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bhthib3381's Avatar
United States
49 Posts
 Posted 03/21/2014  01:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bhthib3381 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm a newbie so I would take what I say with a grain of salt, well, make it the whole salt shaker. But I don't think I'm seeing what you're seeing.
Maybe one of the more experienced people can chime in, but would you mind pointing out what you're looking at for me, because if this is a DDO or DDR, I'd sure like to understand what it is I'm seeing.
I don't see anything that jumps out in the first two photos.
In the next two I'm only seeing some glare.
In the R in trust I see a little something on the leg, but I don't know what it is.
In Liberty, those pictures look like the area is depressed, not raised.
And in the last few, again seeing glare against the normal sides of the letters.

Like I said, I'm pretty new, so I may be missing the important stuff entirely.
Valued Member
United States
122 Posts
 Posted 03/21/2014  01:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cobia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1983-DDO/Ddr---Could-I-Have-Finally-Found-One-?

1983-DDO/Ddr---Could-I-Have-Finally-Found-One-?
Edited by Cobia
03/21/2014 01:36 am
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Jayman931's Avatar
United States
2651 Posts
 Posted 03/21/2014  02:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jayman931 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am seeing Machine Doubling and Die Deterioration. You need to realize that a true doubled die won't be flat and shelf like....I see flat/shelfing on Liberty and America. If I was a doubled die you wouldn't see a flat surface. It would be the same height which would make it look a lot thicker. You would also see split serifs. Hope that helps. Happy hunting!
Valued Member
United States
122 Posts
 Posted 03/21/2014  03:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cobia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you all for the in the input.

Jayman I guess I need to get a camera instead of my cell phone.

I completely understand what you are saying I DO appreciate your reply. It's crazy, from my end I see the pictures and I see the doubling as more rounded and not shelf like. I guess its because either I can see it correctly because I am seeing it through my LCD screen and the camera quality is not there or when I took the pic I am just blinded by the hopes of it being a TRUE double Die...

EEEERRRR Frustraiting..... and I hope I am not coming across as arrogant or thinking I know more then otherS because I am the first one to say I know next to nothing and I am only trying to learn and take everyone's advice and build from it.
Edited by Cobia
03/21/2014 04:54 am
Valued Member
United States
122 Posts
 Posted 03/21/2014  03:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cobia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For example this is what I am seeing on my end. Anyways again thank for all the thoughts and opinions.

1983-DDO/Ddr---Could-I-Have-Finally-Found-One-?
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jamesd's Avatar
United States
281 Posts
 Posted 03/21/2014  06:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jamesd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Cobia, I don't see it either, I would maybe try to zoom out on your pictures to get more depth, then we might be able to see what you are seeing. Right now I am using my HTC one cell phone for taking pictures through my microscope until I get my copy stand done, it does a pretty good job.
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Collector-Corner's Avatar
872 Posts
 Posted 03/21/2014  06:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Collector-Corner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I go through 5000 count bags and I see alot of what Jayman is talking about. The die MAY have had potential at one time and its a bleeded out, worn down die trying to produce something that was once sharp and crisp. I also will say that if you have to blow up the area more than 10x to see an issue, most TPG's won't consider it a significant enough an error / variety.

The way I look at doubled dies is like making pizza dough letters. Cut a letter "S" out, and then, pick it up slighlty and move it just a 1/2 inch over and and cut again. Jay is saying that the level of the material should be almost exactly at the same height, and not lower.

Take a look at this page. Its shows both Machine Doubling (MDD) and a doubled die obverse ( DDO) or doubled die reverse ( DDR);
http://www.errorvariety.com/OFD/MD.html

Sometimes too close is simply too close. I typically never need to magnify a coin more than 2x to see the issue. You can then use a free file service to host your pictures and they can be larger than the 100KB limit here. I know that can be somewhat a limit on creativity of being able to show exactly what people want to show, but something has to give sooner or later.

Sometimes metal moves in mysterious ways to fill a die hole. I often question what some experts call a DDO or DDR when to me, it simply looks like a defective die that allows a strange metal flow. When the right conditions are met, the head scratching begins.

I'm going through a 1964-P 5000 count bag of LMC's and if you want to see some examples of some neat notching, slide over to http://www.coppercoins.com and take a look at these;

http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=eds
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mds

Sure they aren't the same metal per ser or die, but the principal is about the same.

I am also sick of my microscope camera. Its great for initially finding items, but its getting put on the 2nd microscope and a Canon Rebel T3i with a microscope mount is taking its place. I don't mind posting pics here with the microscope camera, but most of the ones I put up on my site are for retail sales, and I'll do a side by side comparison when the camera and the microscope mount get here.
Edited by Collector-Corner
03/21/2014 07:06 am
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coop's Avatar
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 03/21/2014  10:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The lighting is a problem. You have sunlight and artificial (Yellow) light hitting at different angles. When you get two light sources, then light will make it appear that something is there, when it isn't. Also the images are too close. When you look at something too close, it looks like a mountain. If it doesn't show at 10X, 100X is way too much. So instead of having one letter for a shot, try have 5-8 letters. That way if there is something there, then it should show. I know we would all want every coin to be a die variety, but they are not. But if they were, how collectable would they be? So when you do find a variety, it WILL, leap right out at you. You WILL, know that it is a die variety. You won't even question it. Then you will see that you've been looking too hard for something that wasn't there. Hang in their. You will find what you are looking for.
Valued Member
United States
122 Posts
 Posted 03/21/2014  11:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cobia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Collector-Corner's Thank you for such a great detailed reply. Some really good information to add to my collection. AGAIN, THANK YOU...

Coop, as always THANK YOU...
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Sudz's Avatar
United States
1572 Posts
 Posted 03/22/2014  06:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sudz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
So when you do find a variety, it WILL, leap right out at you. You WILL, know that it is a die variety. You won't even question it. Then you will see that you've been looking too hard for something that wasn't there. Hang in their. You will find what you are looking for.


Coop gave me this same advice not all that long ago and he is absolutely right, keep hunting, you will know...

Good Luck!
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