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1780 8 Reales Halved With Tortola Stamp

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Dutton7011's Avatar
United States
4 Posts
 Posted 03/25/2014  01:16 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Dutton7011 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hello, I'm looking for info on a cut 8r coin.

It's halved, just under 2 cm wide & almost 4 cm top to bottom. Weight of .316 oz, 8.97 grams.

Very worn but still readable date and letters. '80 showing. Back is stamped Tortola.

I'm wondering how frequently this cut/ counter stamp was done. I've read that Tortola is the most common marking but am having a surprisingly tough time finding info/ varieties of Tortola stamps.

Any shared knowledge is appreciated! I do realize this piece is probably not valuable but the history is interesting.

I'm already ahead on this purchase as it is silver, paid $1 on a whim :D
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moneditis's Avatar
Spain
110 Posts
 Posted 03/25/2014  03:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moneditis to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well...some photos would help
Valued Member
Germany
194 Posts
 Posted 03/25/2014  06:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dosmundos to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

None of these counterstamps are really common, but the TORTOLA stamp is one that comes up more frecuently.
It is also heavily counterfeited.

I am not an expert in West Indies counterstamps, but as far as I can tell, the collectors looking for the real thing pretty much doubt anything they see, and even buying a slabbed item is somewhat of a leap of faith for them. Sometimes even the stamp types found on the coins in the big collections (Pridmore, Gibbs, Roehrs, etc.) are doubted.

I get the impression that forgeries made for collectors up to completely invented stamps (and histories) date back a very long time and have made access to the field rather difficult.

In any case, a picture of the item in question would definitely help.

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colonialjohn's Avatar
United States
1757 Posts
 Posted 03/25/2014  08:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add colonialjohn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I WAS one of the worlds leading experts ... in the U.S. anyway ... as these species are more geared to foreign collectors. My collection was sold via Stacks during the 2008-2010 period. Geared more to foreign collectors? Why? Every major auction has been at BALDWIN's <BG>. Tortola or Curaco. There is a major W.I. catalouge - Ray Byrne - buy it for $100 - then buy YOUR coin - BUT - if you are a ONE TIME SHOT WI type collector just buy it in a slab ... some may say this is still no guarantee ... they can ... <VVBG>.

John Lorenzo
United States
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Dutton7011's Avatar
United States
4 Posts
 Posted 03/25/2014  11:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dutton7011 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


1780-8-Reales-Halved-With-Tortola-Stamp


Thinking my strike may be on the weak side. I can't find other stamps like this one. If this is counterfeit they sure did a good job..and used silver

1780-8-Reales-Halved-With-Tortola-Stamp
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colonialjohn's Avatar
United States
1757 Posts
 Posted 03/25/2014  11:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add colonialjohn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yep - its a counterfeit.

BTW - its looks cast from this distance. Could be period silver ... unlikely with these issues ... most are modern alloys via XRF verification testing.

You NEED a full and strong library. I spent over $1,000 on my W.I. Library and then I started to purchase WI coins ... but I am not your typical 20 minutes/week hobbyist ... either ... <VVBG>.

Buy a library or buy slabs ... this field in RAW could KILL you and STRIP you in a year ...

John Lorenzo
United States
Edited by colonialjohn
03/25/2014 11:44 am
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jfransch's Avatar
United States
1801 Posts
 Posted 03/25/2014  11:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jfransch to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A couple of questions please.
How do you know it is silver, did you preform a specific gravity test on the coin?
Did you examine the surface of the coin under magnification? In your photo my first thought was the coin is cast, detail look mushy and lots of surface distortion.
Tourist shops in Florida used to sell sets containing an 8 reales, a half cut 8 reales, a quarter cut 8 reales and am 1/8th cut 8 reales, all bearing the "Tortola" counterstamp. You could also buy the set without the counterstamp. ( I still have my set without the counterstamp and a fellow collector in our local coin club has the set with the counterstamp, we should do a display sometime) I would be very careful in evaluating that coin, the $1 you paid might be true value.
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colonialjohn's Avatar
United States
1757 Posts
 Posted 03/25/2014  11:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add colonialjohn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Agreed JF - its cast and probably 0% Ag and 20thC - NO DOUBT. IMO.
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Dutton7011's Avatar
United States
4 Posts
 Posted 03/25/2014  12:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dutton7011 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Disappointing but expected
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Dutton7011's Avatar
United States
4 Posts
 Posted 03/25/2014  12:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dutton7011 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
How can you tell..
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jfransch's Avatar
United States
1801 Posts
 Posted 03/27/2014  10:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jfransch to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Compare the detail on your coin to the coin I am posting, look at the difference in the detail of the coin. Cast counterfeits like your tourist coin have very mushy details and after looking at a couple thousand of these over the last 40 years, you get good at noticing things like that. I also posted one of my full sets of these tourist coins, this set has several counter stamped, I also have a set where they are all counter stamped and a set where none are counter stamped.

1780-8-Reales-Halved-With-Tortola-Stamp


1780-8-Reales-Halved-With-Tortola-Stamp
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