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St. Patricks Halfpenny - Origin?

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1757 Posts
 Posted 03/27/2014  07:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add colonialjohn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
One of the country's leading medal enthusiast comments:
While I don't consider myself an expert on the series, just a brief Google brought up the original paper by Aquilla Smith, which mentions several early sources (Thoresby in 1715, and Jonathan Swift in 1724) referring to the large and small St. Patrick's coinage as halfpence and farthings. It is also interesting to note that an earlier source (Evelyn in 1697) talks about silver "medals" not coins, as does Thoresby. This distinction might explain the weight variability with the silver pieces. They also make mention of the coinage circulating during the reign of Charles II. Has anyone noted the resemblance of King David on this coinage to Charles I? Maybe the coinage was struck by someone in Ireland (or perhaps England) supportive of the restored Stuart monarchy to circulate in Ireland, hence the dual symbolism. Or could the coinage date back to the reign of Charles I, or struck in protest of the Commonwealth?
Edited by colonialjohn
03/27/2014 07:54 am
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colonialjohn's Avatar
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 Posted 03/27/2014  07:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add colonialjohn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
JPL: Interesting metallurgical post:

Guys,

I have never seen any silver pieces with any hint of a splash.

I'm not sure if liquid metal would adhere to the silver over the long term.

With the copper QVIESCAT PLEBS coins I have yet to see a truly embedded piece of brass/metal.

What I do see is liquid metal that sometimes was spread very thinly over the planchet and has had great adherence properties while other droplets are thicker and sometimes have contracted a bit to form a physical outline around the splash.

Then there are those that have a shallow crater like appearance with the detail of the strike still showing. My guess is that the brassy metal is no longer there.

Just a gut feeling -- the "gold" splash was in a higher metal -- yeah it wasn't gold, but it looked it. Would it almost be insulting a silver piece to have a brass splasher in it, since it would be an inferior metal to the coin? Obviously a real gold splasher would have been cool, but expensive to produce.

I'm not sure of what the metallurgical process would be, if brass would bind strongly to silver during striking or not as it did with copper. I haven't seen any evidence on any of the silver St Pat's that they even tried to make one with a splasher -- and I don't readily recall ANY coin from the era that was silver with any sort of splasher in it, so there might be some metallurgical reason why it doesn't happen.

JPL: I have never seen any CONFIRMATION what the yellow metal is in these splashers or the process that created these splashers - be DEFINED?

John Lorenzo
United States
Edited by colonialjohn
03/27/2014 07:55 am
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1757 Posts
 Posted 03/27/2014  07:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add colonialjohn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Another viewpoint for today:

For instance John Lupia published the first of his two well researched articles on St. Pats in C4N Winter 2007. John found documentation dating back to February of 1674 that specifically mentions patricks. This document directly says that commmunicants in each parish were expected to give 4 patricks for each Mass attended. The document goes on to say that there were 80 Masses given each year. John then goes on to extrapolate that 100 communicants per 2,278 parishes nationally, translates to 911,200 St. Patrick halfpence collected for each Mass. Thus this amount of patricks times 80 was perhaps collected in 1674.

This is a lot of coppers.

Think about it, documentation of payment in "patricks" specifically in 1674. This is progress.


Fast forward to 1724 and Jonathon Swift , Dean of St. Patrick.

At this time Swift was on an unrelenting "all out written tirade" against the introduction of the Wood's coppers to Ireland.

Citing the "lies" about the lack of good copper in Ireland and thus the trumped up "need" for the Wood's coins he singles out "the great St. Patricks halfpenny" with still being in circulation while mentioning, almost in passing, "the small St. Patrick Coin which passeth now for a Farthing". It is my opinion that by his choice of words that he does not connect these two types of St. Patricks being minted together in time.

However, clearly 1674 to 1724 is at least 50 years of useful circulation.

JPL - Hard to believe these pieces had any communion token flavor to them with Catholics ... even Protestants ... the fabric ... is not a communicant token ... interesting they did circulate in and around Blondeau's time. Material Analysis of these pieces then to some Charles II farthings of 1672-1675. See what DOORS open up ...
Its either Vatican or Tower Mint on this merry-go-round ...

John Lorenzo
United States
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