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1964 Proof Kennedy Toning

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mcstone's Avatar
United Kingdom
179 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2014  05:11 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add mcstone to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
What do you guys think about this toning? I got this one from a guy at a car boot sale recently who was selling some coins from a house clearance. He didn't seem to know much about them and I got this one for just under spot

Anyway it was in an old 2x2 that looked as old as the coin was (browning cardboard, rusty nails, damaged plastic... you know the type) and I wanted to get some opinions on the toning. Does it look real to you guys? If so does it have any premium?

The non yellow parts of the coin are quite a bit darker than other Kennedy half dollars in my collection if that helps.

Many thanks

Matt :)

1964-Proof-Kennedy-Toning

1964-Proof-Kennedy-Toning
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John1's Avatar
United States
56855 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2014  06:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would not call that toning.It looks more like environmental damage to me but I am no pro.
John1
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mcstone's Avatar
United Kingdom
179 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2014  06:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mcstone to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have given it a quick dip in acetone to remove some of the debris from the disintegrating 2x2 and none of the yellow came come off. At first I thought it may have been pvc damage but I guess that confirms that it is not. If it is environmental damage, what kind of environmental damage could it be?
Edited by mcstone
03/28/2014 06:33 am
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Fuzzy317's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 03/28/2014  06:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Fuzzy317 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
maybe it was heated with a blow-torch and/or painted
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mcstone's Avatar
United Kingdom
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 Posted 03/28/2014  07:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mcstone to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is defiantly not paint as the coin still maintains full lustre. Although the 2x2 looks like it could have been heated at some time maybe this coin was in a house fire at some point? Hope the original owners are OK, or I could have a haunted coin on my hands!!

but seriously could a house fire do this? If so I guess numismatic value is ruined right?
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John1's Avatar
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 Posted 03/28/2014  08:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
If so I guess numismatic value is ruined right?
If you saw this coin on ebay for more then silver value would you buy it?
John1
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mcstone's Avatar
United Kingdom
179 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2014  08:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mcstone to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Haha! That is a good point... I actually do sorta like the look of it so I guess I would pay a little over spot.
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21786 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2014  08:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
I don't see beauty here.
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mcstone's Avatar
United Kingdom
179 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2014  08:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mcstone to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Haha! Eloquently put sel! Can anyone see any evidence that this toning is artificial?
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mcstone's Avatar
United Kingdom
179 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2014  08:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mcstone to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was thinking that I may want to sell this coin on ebay at some point but I dont want to rip anyone off so would it be wise to state that it is artificially toned? Or advise that it is possible?
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Foxwoods Man's Avatar
United States
4901 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2014  09:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Foxwoods Man to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
maybe it was heated with a blow-torch and/or painted


Exactly, it has the looks of a heated/cooled, artificially toned coin.
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awallin01's Avatar
United Kingdom
477 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2014  09:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add awallin01 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Toning of silver usually gives off beautiful colours, only with ancients dug out of the ground would I expect to see blackening of silver. With this coin it looks to have had two 'treatments' done to it, firstly creating the light brownish colour-maybe via sulphur powder and alcohol burnings. Then the second looks charred via some sort of oven technique or even a frying pan technique involving left over oil in the pan causing this odd arrangement of toning. The difference between the 'tones' is too much of an uncomplimentary tone contrast, which would be an indicator of artificial toning.

If it were in a house fire I'd expect to see only charring and probably more and less consistent than on the coin in question(overall charring covered, not like the coin shown), and without these contrasting 'tones'. For charring to happen, an object is usually a particular distance from the fire/source. And this coin has 'toning' all over it, so it would of had to of been levitating to achieve this from a fire, and usually direct contact with a fire may even cause melting of a coin-but this would be an extremely prolonged rather furious fire-with the right elements fueling it.

I think you did well with getting it under spot, have you tested it for silver via basic tests? I couldn't see it having a premium personally, as mentioned above though beauty is in the eye...etc. And one other thing, is this toning consistent on the rims/edge? Any chance of a picture of that?

I sourced my knowledge of artificial toning from this link:- http://roko.coinsite.com/origcoindoc/p0000080.htm
And my knowledge of charring on fires is from my time teaching outdoor survival and spending alot of time trying different things out with fires.
Edited by awallin01
03/28/2014 09:10 am
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mcstone's Avatar
United Kingdom
179 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2014  09:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mcstone to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the reply, the edges of the coin are mostly yellow and have some more of the dark tones on them too so they are consistent. It is the right weight and thickness for a silver Kennedy so defiantly silver :D

Do you think it could be possible that this coin was in a safe or cabinet during a fire which protected it from charring? Under closer inspection the 2x2 it came in looks a little melted in places. Or would it be likely it was artificially toned in the holder?

I am leaning more towards artificial at this point too after looking at that link just now.
Edited by mcstone
03/28/2014 09:26 am
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awallin01's Avatar
United Kingdom
477 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2014  09:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add awallin01 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The reason I asked about checking for silver is because of some of the sellers at car boots, notoriously have dodgy goods. There are good sellers aswell, but watch out for the pikeys lol.

If it were in a safe, it would have different toning because at least one of the surfaces of the coin would be in contact with the safe surface or another object.

As I said you did well with getting it for less than spot, and you never know if someone would find it more attractive than others. :)
Edited by awallin01
03/28/2014 09:42 am
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mcstone's Avatar
United Kingdom
179 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2014  09:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mcstone to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
haha! I know what you mean, I've seen a few fakes about.
Thanks for the info, pretty sure it is artificial. Still cant complain with the price
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davec13's Avatar
United States
757 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2014  8:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add davec13 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have a few Kennedy halves that came out of a house fire. I'll dig them out and take some pictures so you can see what a real fire makes them look like.
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