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 Replies: 21 / Views: 3,327 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2207 Posts |
A lot of the story about this coin doesn't make sense. I read that the reason they were made was because, due to the rise in the value of silver, people had begun to hoard silver dollars, which in the early 1960s you could still acquire from a bank at face value.
So LBJ issues an order to make more dollars to prevent a coin shortage. Shortly thereafter, though, Congress convinces him to stop the minting, so it ceases. The minted coins are all melted (and let's say, just for the sake of my post, that that is true).
Here is what doesn't make sense to me:
1) Why would the mint make more silver dollar coins when people were hoarding them because of the silver content? Wouldn't it make sense to use copper-nickel instead, to prevent hoarding?
2) The Peace design was originally used to commemorate the end of World War I. We all know that in 1964 things in the world were far from peaceful, especially in the USA. Using that design was anachronistic; couldn't they come up with something more original and topical?
3) The whole business of LBJ getting the coins minted and then Congress stopping the minting almost immediately just doesn't sound logical. Am I missing something here? (Or is that just politics as usual?)
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
477 Posts |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_dollar I know it's wiki but the info on the strikes mentioned seems to answer the questions. Also usually when things in the world aren't pretty, silver seemingly get's distributed through coinage. It evenly spreads out the precious metal, and people protect there money-Gollum ''my precious'' lol. Then when things get prettier, a change in production happens using differing metals. And the precious metals are usually bought back in, either by making a version of coinage no longer usable (UK silvers). Or by recession causing people to sell there precious metals because they need money. This is a very condensed version, as to not stray off topic. ;) I personally blame Arec Barrwin!
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2207 Posts |
Arec Barrwin is still worfwess. And I'm still ronery.
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
477 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1531 Posts |
Suspicious or not, I'd like to see one.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1531 Posts |
You would think that some of the coins would be sent to the Smithsonian if they were all being melted, so there would only be a few...
Like the 1933 Double Eagle.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1391 Posts |
Quote:
Am I missing something here? You have never worked as a civil servant? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts |
When I started collecting coins back in Denver - we had a mint employee that actually worked the line on the Peace dollars come and give a talk, it was quite interesting. He said all of them could purchase one or two at face value, but at the last minute the mint demanded them to be brought back and they ended up melting them, there were no records of the actual count of how many sold, the mint went on weight of melted coins only, so it is quite conceivable that there are a few of them out in the world. He never purchased one. They won't come out in public or they will be seized. I've heard rumors of one being sold in Europe, told to me by somebody that may possibly know, that same person also said there were at least a half dozen in the lot he knew about, (he was a big time dealer, now passed away) and had no reason to lie or make up the story. He handled a lot of the big rarities over the years he was a coin dealer and put on coin auctions, so I doubt he was fibbing about this one. He also said he knew of multiple 1933 Double Eagles, way before any of them actually came to surface, which they ended up doing many years after his death, making that story now completely true, I have no doubt that there are at least 2 1964-D Peace dollars out there based on his comments to me. Take it for what it's worth. "Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2˘ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2207 Posts |
I wonder if there's a silent agreement amongst dealers when it comes to illegal coins. Perhaps the coins are traded amongst the dealers under the radar; and the people who own them have private "viewing parties" for them and their friends to look at the coins, and those who come are sworn to secrecy. It's like their own private little club, and no one spills the beans because they don't have any good reason to; plus, it would spoil the fun of knowing something others don't-as well as spoiling the fun of these get-togethers. Sounds plausible to me.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2207 Posts |
This is the most fascinating entry in that wiki article:  Give me a 1970 Peace dollar over a 64 any day! ("All were presumed destroyed"? Don't you love that line?) |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Quote:
So LBJ issues an order to make more dollars to prevent a coin shortage. Shortly thereafter, though, Congress convinces him to stop the minting, so it ceases. Other way round,the Senate caused the coins to be made and LBJ stopped them. And it was politics as usual. The drawdown of the silver dollars from the Treasury meant that they would soon be out so some Senators from the silver producing states requested that new silver dollars be struck to replenish the supply. It was basically a silver subsidy. they tied their votes on the question of the clad composition to the production of the dollars. You make the dollars and help the people in my state or I'll hold up the coinage bill. Originally the dollars were going to be Morgan dollars not Peace, but all of the Morgan dies and hubs had been destroyed while there were still some Peace dollar reverses on hand. So they changed it to the Peace dollar. (As it turned out none of the Peace dollar dies were usable so the had to start over from scratch anyway.) It was the hoarding that finally got LBJ to kill the coin. Before they were even produced dealers were already offering to buy them at $7.50 each. None would have entered circulation and it just didn't make any sense to throw that silver away when they were already in danger of having a shortage,and in the middle of a bad coin shortage. The silver for the 45 million silver dollar would produce a lot more smaller coins that were much more needed. So LBJ killed the Peacedollar by Presidential order. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1590 Posts |
I read an interesting article years ago by an Engineer who was a coin collector. He looked at the fact that the Mint claimed that all the silver that had been authorized/supplied for the 1964-D Silver dollar, before production, was TO THE OUNCE what was reclaimed after melting. As any Engineer knows you are going to have material loss through all the processes used in modern manufacturing. There is no way you can put in one ounce of raw material and get one ounce at the other end. Even if the loss is minor when you multiply that by the numbers minted it all ads up. If those numbers are accurate from the mint they somehow managed to reclaim not only all the 1964-D Peace dollars but several hundred, to several thousands, of other silver dollars. Edited by jmkendall
03/29/2014 2:49 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote:If those numbers are accurate from the mint they somehow managed to reclaim not only all the 1964-D Peace dollars but several hundred, to several thousands, of other silver dollars. Or someone else just threw in silver like with the double eagles. Its impossible to verify from ounces alone. Any time something like that was allowed to walk out the door before asking for it back you can bet that somewhere someone has one that will never see the light of day or tell anyone else about so its not taken. |
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Moderator
 United States
188770 Posts |
Quote:Give me a 1970 Peace dollar over a 64 any day! Yes!  Quote:
Or someone else just threw in silver like with the double eagles. Its impossible to verify from ounces alone. Agreed. There is no way that they were all destroyed. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1531 Posts |
If I was in possession of a 1964 Peace dollar, yes... I would let PCGS pay me $10,000 to see it. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts |
I was in the shop in London (Knightsbridge coins) that Mr. Fenton had the 1933 Double Eagle in at the time it was sitting in his safe, of course I had no idea it was there, but several months later he was arrested in NY and the story broke. So one never knows just what some dealer might have stashed away in a safe in the back. Never knew about the 1970 Peace dollar before, that is news to me, thanks for bringing it up! One of the reasons I love CCF and the community here, I'm always learning, and trying to teach or impart some of my learned wisdom. "Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2˘ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440 |
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Replies: 21 / Views: 3,327 |
Posted 03/28/2014 11:32 am
