2009 DC Daniel Carr Silver Eagle Proofed/Overstrike

He is destroying an original coin, which if I'm not mistaken is illegal.
He is than using HIS OWN dies to produce them.
He is NOT putting the mandatory word copy on them.
And there is a large difference between producing your own ILLEGITIMATE coins which are copying U.S.A. legal tender/ bullion coins accept with a small hardly noticeable initial and spamping something on a coin that is still in fact a legal tender government issued coin.
These are not real coins anymore and they do not have the proper markings to obviously show that they are fake.

Oh my Lord, listen to yourself.




When it is unrecognizable.

It's all very well having these fakes in a slab that says that they are not Genuine But what happens when the "Dodgy Brothers" that abound on ebay and craigslist crack them out and start flogging them off as "Rare" date coins

I may be wrong but I am of the assumption that only a Government mint can issue a coin with a face value on it.
Just wondering what is it that ISN'T a counterfeit about this coin.
You can call them Fantasy coins or whatever else, To me they are simply a counterfeit end of story.

No, that's one of the few things Mr Carr is in the clear over. In America you can destroy as many American coins, including ASEs, as you like (with the current exception of 1 cent and 5 cent coins). Jewellers melt down ASEs all the time.


That wasn't Bobby's question. If he took your 1921 Morgan, turned it into a "fantasy Proof 2009 ASE" (even though the weight and size would be wrong)... would it still be a 1921 Morgan, even though you couldn't possibly tell that it was a 1921 Morgan under there just by looking at it? To answer justin's question on the previous page...


...one answer is, "when the original design of the coin has been completely obliterated". You can't take a blob of melted-down coin silver to the bank and expect to get its original "face value" for it. Most hobo nickels are no longer worth 5 cents. And your 1921 Morgan would no longer be a 1921 Morgan, it would no longer be a coin. It isn't what it once was, anymore. It would revert to being just another piece of silver which someone had turned into an imitation coin.

Mr Carr has likewise destroyed the originality of the ASE he used to make these coins. It is exactly as if he had used blank one-ounce rounds, or Mexican libertads or Canadian maple leafs, to make them. You only have Mr Carr's word that he actually used an ASE. A difference that makes no difference is no difference.


This coin is, at best, a fantasy and at worst a counterfeit. Nobody is arguing that it is a genuine coin. "Exonumia" is the subforum where fake, replica and fantasy coins should be discussed.

Interesting discussion so far. I haven't formed an opinion yet as to fantasy vs. counterfeit.

I don't actively collect proof ASE's currently so the frustration over not having a US Mint proof coin from 2009 isn't an issue for me.

-MV

I wouldn't trust them to stay up until end-of-sale. Last I heard, people like scubu were still reporting them and ebay was still removing them when reported. Perhaps I'm behind the times.

I can see we are not going to agree on what this coin is.
I do know that it would better discussed by members that collect ASE's, which is the modern section.

I know many coins that fall into your description do get discussed in other sections. EX: Henning nickels, real fake and counterfeit coins.

I am feeling this thread was moved because of a hated of Daniel Carr .. and is not helping a open discussion.

I really am reading the pro and con opinions .. and can see some points of the con side that could have validity.

I feel the open dislike of these coins are taking away from a good discussion.