Bidding On NGC Stars - Questions

The only downside to submitting Morgan $1 for * Star attributions is that you MUST pay the submission fees with consecutive small denomination ($1 or $5) * Star notes.

I have no idea what you're talking about... so here's a bunny with a pancake on it's head.

Doesn't a star coin mean that it has excellent eye appeal?

First, you can "buy the coin and not the slab" without refusing to buy slabbed coins. I recognize that it is reductionist to consider nothing more than the numerical grade of a particular coin. But that's not what I do. The world isn't divided into idiots who buy slabs without regard to what's inside them and wise "old-time" collectors who shun them. I have found, remarkably, that one can actually find excellent coins in TPG holders. And, the grade on that holder is not a meaningless consideration if you are competing to acquire or sell a coin. The fact is, whether I like it or not, most problem-free coins are in slabs and more and more are being slabbed everyday. This may offend experienced collectors, but I don't see this changing anytime soon. And there are benefits associated with slabbed coins that are invaluable to new collectors trying to navigate ebay for example. The fact is, if you wanted to rip somebody off, you'd have a much better chance of it selling/trading raw coins to unsuspecting new collectors than slabbed ones.

So, back to the topic, while I recognize and share a great skepticism with regard to grading companies (see my post on "old holders"), I've not yet seen a coin that had the NGC star designation which I thought didn't deserve a special eye-appeal designation. It's fine to say pay what you want, but I was asking about bidding. And I specifically asked, IF you find a coin you like AND it's in a star holder, how would you calculate a COMPETETIVE bid - assuming you want to purchase THAT COIN. Plus, the second question was very specifically addressed to people who would send coins to be graded. If that's not you, you can't help me. I don't mean to be rude or to question the dogmas - er... opinions - of others. I just meant to address my question to those of us who do submit coins for grading.

I understand that I guess the way I answered the question came across differently then I meant. The basic idea I was trying to say is that regardless of the star designation a coin, ANY COIN, is only worth what you would pay for it. So if the star designation and the coin inside it looks better to you and has more appeal to you then you are the only one that can decide what it is worth and how much of a premium you are willing to pay for that coin. I dont see anyone saying that there is a say 10% or 15% premium over another coin for it. As the saying goes "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" you may love a coin while someone else may hate it making that coin more valuable to you. So I guess what I am trying to say is that if you like the coin then its worth what you will pay for it. The only exception to this is if you are purchasing simply as an investment to resell for a profit. I hope that makes sense...

As to your second question, I have no experience with submitting so I cannot and will not even venture a guess at it.

Steve

Thanks for your comments. And, sorry in advance to anyone who is offended by longish posts, but here's my story:

I suppose this is on my mind because I submit coins about once a year when my collector society membership renews and I get free NGC vouchers. I have been collecting both raw and slabbed coins as I find them. A year ago or so, from a Stack's auction, I won a hubba-hubba-gorgeous 1924 Peace dollar in an NGC holder with the grade MS65. This coin is a veru colorul jewel- much more attractively toned than you see in almost any Peace dollars, and it was mounted in an old NGC holder with the reverse on the front and the obverse on the back. This seemed to me either because the graders thought the reverse was particularly catching (it is - glowing gold and pink, sky blue and peach colored target toning perfectly symetrical and radiating from the eagle, which is suffused in a uniform deep, frosty rose - but I digress), or it was a mistake. I, being a complete neurotic, and not having been collecting for long enough to know better, could not look at the coin because it looked so distracting, so convinced I was that this was like when they don't mount a coin properly and it's sideways or it's mounted at an angle in the hole, etc. (This is similar to the feeling I have when one of my raw coins is slightly askew in the album slot - it drives me crazy).

Thinking my first theory was ridiculous (what did I know?), I decided it was a mistake. So I cracked it out and submitted it to PCGS 1) in the hopes of a higher grade, and 2) because I like their holders better than NGC's (aesthetically). It got a 65. Then, natch, I started seeing lots of coins graded by NGC that were mounted that way (technically the reverse is what's on the "filament" side). Every one of those coins that I've seen have been given star designation and it's always on account of the reverse. Then I learned, by chance, that NGC has only given the star designation to coins graded in the last few years. Maybe, I thought, my coin would have gotten a star, if they had existed at the time of its NGC certification?

Why was this important to me? Well, first, most of my coins are raw, or were when I bought them. I have focused 2/3 of my attention on my type set and my circulated Walkers - now Buffalo - sets; but I've given 1/3 of may attention assembling a more-or-less gem set of Peace dollars and a short set (41-47) Walkers in gem. I completed the Peace dollars recently. I've gone to a lot of trouble assembling the set and, yes, I do care about what their potential resale value is. All these coins are certified and that has a lot to do with certain hard lessons I learned in my first year or so of collecting. Some of you here were witness to much of that.

Now, I just got my 5 free vouchers for grading. I decided to crack the aforementioned 1924 Peace dollar out of its PCGS holder and use one of my NGC vouchers to have it graded. Part of my motivation is, it may get a star. Call me an airhead, but that possibility does not seem to me petty or contemptible, especially regarding what I know of its history. This is a hobby after all. You're supposed to have fun. I also submitted some beautiful raw coins that came out of my 7070 album and thought, wouldn't it be great if I got more than one star! Forgive me.

So these questions were on my mind. I'm grateful if you read my whole boring story.

I for one don't find your story boring at all, quite the opposite. I've seen coins like the '24 you are talking about, and they are quite compelling. You might very well get the star designation, and I think it would be a source of pride concerning your eye for quality. I don't know how much the market will value that, but your collection would be richer for it. There are a lot of reasons to be skeptical about the star designation, but there is no reason not to try to achieve one or to acquire coins with it, especially in types other than Morgan dollars.

One thing I wonder strictly from an investment/buying standpoint is whether the "*" will cause a buyer to bid more on an NGC slab than on a "starless" PCGS slab of the same grade. That gets back to the holder v. coin debate, I suppose, and is something I'll start looking for now.

Great post Stephen. Breaking it up into paragraphs definitely made it more readable too. well done.

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I have no idea what you're talking about... so here's a bunny with a pancake on it's head

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Thank you for the laugh this morning. Unfortunately it was during a sip of very hot coffee....