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1921 Canada 5 Cent Error? Help

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the_shining_85's Avatar
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 Posted 07/06/2014  09:52 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add the_shining_85 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I have a question that there's not a lot of answers on but very interesting.

So, recently I bought a 1921 Canada 5 Cent coin, it was actually found by a guy who knows nothing about coins and the story seemed pretty legit.

I examined the coin over and over trying to prove it as a fake, however it seems to pass every time except for a couple minor details.

So first, the coin weighs the exact correct amount right around 1.17 grams, 1.1664 basically, then I tested it with the facial tissue technique to see if it reflected light better than a non-silver coin and it passed that, then I checked if it was magnetic compared to a non-silver coin, once again it passed and was not magnetic, then finally I did the ice test where I took it and another coin and set it on ice and once again it proved as silver and melted instantly compared to another room temp coin.

So the coin IS silver, the minor thing I noticed was the date seemed a slight bit different style, the 9 and 2 in 1'9''2'1 seemed a bit more larger but not by much at all, and slightly different look however there is very few pictures of an actual 1921 5 cent out there but when compared to them it actually does appear that 1921 did in fact look a slight bit different than that of 1920 for instance so it seems to fall in line as the mint using a slightly different text that year.

Now the only 2 things are the crown at the top of the obverse side where it says "5 Cents Canada" appears to have a slight bit missing off the right side but on close examination it actually looks like a die crack which doesn't appear uncommon to coins in that era. The other item is when I flip the coin over the portrait of the king seems turned slightly to where it normally is, normally when you flip those years over the portrait lines up straight but this appears to be tilted to the left a bit more.

SO MY QUESTION IS: with approximately 2 million made and many melted down but there not being an exact number known out there, COULD THIS COIN BE A RARE EXAMPLE OF A 1921 ERROR COIN?

Being so rare there's not many examples out there I am just not sure. If it was a fake then it's the most accurate coin I've seen and even made of silver and the exact same as what it's suppose to be which makes me think if it were fake someone made a ton of effort to make it identical if that's even possible...?

LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK?
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darryldarryl's Avatar
Canada
2426 Posts
 Posted 07/06/2014  10:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add darryldarryl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Welcome to the Forum!

A picture will go a lot further than your description.
Please post some pics.
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Canada
9864 Posts
 Posted 07/06/2014  10:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


The larger 9 and 2 as well as the missing bit of crown are markers of Chinese made counterfeits.
That it's silver and correct weight is troubling.
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
Edited by DBM
07/06/2014 1:05 pm
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robmck1967's Avatar
Canada
870 Posts
 Posted 07/06/2014  12:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add robmck1967 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
no doubt you need to get this coin certified. it will answer all questions.
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artdio's Avatar
1844 Posts
 Posted 07/06/2014  12:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add artdio to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am 99.999 % sure it is a Chinese fake.. Even though the weight is correct , I am not surprised.. They are masters and I'm sure have perfected the method....
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the_shining_85's Avatar
16 Posts
 Posted 07/06/2014  1:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add the_shining_85 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks guys, I thought that might be the case but I suppose I should get it certified to really find out. I will post a couple pictures later this afternoon.

I was trying to prove it as a fake but has difficulty as its so accurate in material and whatnot and there's not really any information out there on fakes of these other than 1 brief forum.

I didn't think a Chinese fake would be true silver but its a nice reproduction if it is fake and will fill in the gap in my collection until a day I have money for a real one. It's a pretty good job regardless. But I will still post some pictures and take it to I.C.C.S. to verify if you guys think I should.

Thanks again for the input.
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artdio's Avatar
1844 Posts
 Posted 07/06/2014  3:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add artdio to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just curious would you mind telling us how much you paid for it... This will tell us if the guy's story is up to snuff...
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SHAFTA9a's Avatar
Canada
10743 Posts
 Posted 07/06/2014  4:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SHAFTA9a to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
...take it to I.C.C.S. to verify if you guys think I should.

There is no thinking....you have to have a coin like that verified, this coin is counterfeited all the time.

And... ..to CCF
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the_shining_85's Avatar
16 Posts
 Posted 07/06/2014  7:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add the_shining_85 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here are some pics of the coin. Wondering your thoughts before I send it to I.C.C.S.

Thanks everyone for your help. Let me know.


1921-Canada-5-Cent-Error?-Help

1921-Canada-5-Cent-Error?-Help

1921-Canada-5-Cent-Error?-Help

1921-Canada-5-Cent-Error?-Help
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artdio's Avatar
1844 Posts
 Posted 07/06/2014  7:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add artdio to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would have to say 100% Chinese counterfeit
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the_shining_85's Avatar
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 Posted 07/06/2014  7:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add the_shining_85 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hmmm, I didn't realize they did all these counterfits, not a lot of info on that particular coin.

So I baught it off a guy on Kijiji, $200 with expediated tracked shipping, he was from Quebec, I asked a lot of questions as to where he got it, how long ago, etc. etc.

He not only tracked it, he supplied his personal information, return address, and even exact co-ordinates a details of where he supposedly found it.

His English was poor and obvously translated from French to English, I thought it was probably too good to be true but he sent several pics before I offered to buy it on a chance and I figured if it was counterfit it looked pretty good regardless and until I have the kind of money to invest in a certified version of this coin, I thought it was worth a small risk and a desent copy if it turned out not to be original.

I didn't realize they would go through the effort of using actual silver for this either, I thought probably multi-ply steel or something along those lines.

Also thanks for the replys and the welcoming to the forum, first forum I've ever joined and everyone is so helpful. Much appreciated.
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United States
840 Posts
 Posted 07/06/2014  7:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add colonialtokens to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

I agree, not genuine.

doug
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chequer's Avatar
Canada
4227 Posts
 Posted 07/06/2014  8:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chequer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Also, it's good to know that if it is counterfeit, as it would appear, it's illegal to own.
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Canada
9864 Posts
 Posted 07/06/2014  8:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No point sending it to ICCS, it's definitely a Chinese made counterfeit.
It is a criminal offence to possess or sell these coins in Canada, if you have the seller's personal information you have leverage to get your money back.
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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artdio's Avatar
1844 Posts
 Posted 07/06/2014  8:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add artdio to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If I was you I would tell him you want money back...He knew what he had and thats why he went to kijiji... Tell him politely that you were warned it was illigal to own it..
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the_shining_85's Avatar
16 Posts
 Posted 07/06/2014  8:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add the_shining_85 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sounds good, thanks for the information, I will contact him and if I need to go further is it the RCMP that deals with this type of issue?
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