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 Replies: 19 / Views: 4,081 |
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Valued Member
United States
88 Posts |
So yesterday, I hijacked my own 1904-O Morgan VAM-32 thread by making the following statement below... But, before I paste it in, I want to share that the coin I own possesses ALL of the details of 2A EXCEPT the line under the 4 in the 1884 date. EVERY other detail is there, clear as day! Any thoughts on the matter would be much appreciated! ...Anyway, my point for bringing it up - This coin is FASCINATING to look at under a loupe/magnification. There is so much going on witht this coin: OBVERSE: 1. There are three needles sticking out of Lady Liberty: one jutting up out of her lower lip diagonally, one coming oout diagnonally from her chin, running into her lower lip, and a third pointing downward about 14 of the way down her neck, starting at the top near the cheek. 2. Left Stars #3 through 7 have a visible-to-the-naked-eye line/crack running through all 4 of these stars 3. At the Cap Vee, there is extra silver matter, looks like "flames jutting out at the cap-vee....perhaps this is clashed form the reverse wreath/leaves, since they have the same "flame" appearance. This is a raised section that juts out as far as the bottom of the cap/hair line. REVERSE: 1.The right wreath has an extra piece of raised material connected to the inner side of the write wreath, almost extending to the eagle wing. If you draw a picture of an overhead view of a stingray, and then cut it in half, it looks like this! It is conneted to the inner right wreath, moving inward to eagle wing. 2. ENORMOUS activity on the left wreath, and I think this might be the clashed lady liberty profile / bridge of nose at bottom of the left wreath - a long straight line of raised material...Then, at the very top of the left wreath, there is a raised piece, perhaps a clash, that is almost a very large "Letter S" 3. There is a die break, or jagged line that goes around the ENTIRE perimeter of the coin, no joke! Anyway, why with all of this activity, is this not some sort of classification? Seems to me like there is a LOT going on here...But I am a newbie, very green and uneducated... any thoughts? EndTheFed   |
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Rest in Peace
United States
10625 Posts |
Let's sEE a closE up.  I don't think it's a 2A from what I can see. What is the date position? Edited by dave700x
07/11/2014 9:38 pm
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Valued Member
 United States
88 Posts |
So, I found out the reason it was not attributed is because I am supposed to PAY to have them attributed! Ooops. Anacs confirmed this. I guess I got my VAM-32 for free, but now I have to start paying $7 to $12 per coin to have the attributed. This was my firest submission in the world of Morgan Vams and I should have known better! If you look at VAM World under 2A, My coin has EVERYTHING in the picture except the dash under the date. - It has the Bat Wing Clash - It has the 3 pin needles sticking out of liberty's face - It has the Clashed E, at least the stem of the E, with LIGHT "E" Feet horizontally - it has the outline of Liberty's profile between the eagle's right wing and right side wreath - It has the neck clash emanating from the top of the eagles' wing near the G in God of the motto - Die crack inside the date numeral 8 - it has the hair vee and cap vee problems too ....it has exactly everything, to the letter, from the first 9 photos in the VAM World listing, clear as day...as per the above descriptions. - It does NOT have the Dash under the 8. So, if it has everything but the dash, is this something else? |
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Valued Member
United States
88 Posts |
...And oh yeah, I am just learning how to take close up photos... The first thing I learned is to turn the FLASH OFF! This is my problem, and this is why I could not get any closer up on my close-ups!
Will take photos of the above bullet points later tonight when kids are zzzzzz'ing
-EndTheFed
***UPDATE*** I forgot to answer your question - The date is just a hair over 3 Denticles away from the point. So, this is not a "Far" date, but it is farther than most of my coins.
Edited by EndTheFed
07/11/2014 10:17 pm
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Pillar of the Community
743 Posts |
I am going to guess it is an 8B because of the position of the clashes but, it is really hard to tell with the photos you provided. Bigger full coin photos (not huge) or, some close ups of the date, under the tail feathers, and in front of the neck would be what you need to attribute this coin.
Kris
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Pillar of the Community
743 Posts |
Or it could be many others, I would check these VAMs and look for a match 8C, 8D2, 8E, 8G, 19A, or if it is a normal date position it could be the 1C, or 5A.
I never realized how many strong clashed die VAMs there are in the 1884 series.
Edited by 7TF
07/11/2014 10:28 pm
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Pillar of the Community
743 Posts |
To get good close ups you need really good lighting. I place my coins up under a hanging light fixture and use the spiral white lights in the fixture.
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Pillar of the Community
743 Posts |
2.5 denticles is normal anything past that is far. It looks like a far date to me.
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Rest in Peace
United States
10625 Posts |
Compare it to 8B. The nose clash line on the reverse looks similar.
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Valued Member
United States
88 Posts |
Thanks to both of you... the interesting thing upon closer inspection of this coin at bottom... the denticles underneath the 1884 date are completeley jacked up. It looks like someone "beveled" about 2/3 of the entire denticles from the outside, angled downward and inward toward the center....creating a wedge pointing inward, and tons of little striation lines jutting even further inward, almost touching the date numeral bottom.
....this is where a dash under the "4" numeral would be, but it cannot be there, due to horribly-cut denticles
-EndTheFed
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Pillar of the Community
743 Posts |
I can see in your photos that the clash positions on your coin don't match up with the VAM 2A. The clashes have to be in the exact same position. Check out the full coin photos on the bottom of the 2A page. The 2A has a nice pronounced clashed E under the tail feathers. Do you see a clashed E under the tail feathers on your coin? Do you see a clashed "n" infront of the neck under the wing clash line? Sometimes they are tough to see, tilt the coin at different angles and look at that area with an eye piece. There are other places for clashed letters: In the hair vee you can get "ust" clashes from the reverse "Trust". Most of the time you only see the "st" or "t" clash and they are usually fairly weak. Above d in God on the reverse sometimes you can get an "e" clash from the obv. designer initials. If there are no clashed letters on your coin then the clashes will not be listed in the VAM description. Any VAM could have a die state with clashes, they only get separated into new listing when there is letter transfer. Check in front of the neck of Lady Liberty for an "n" clash. Then try and match up the position of the wing line clash coming out of the neck with one of the "n" clashes listed. I tried to find all of the clashed "n" VAMs and listed them above. I am guessing what you have is one of VAMs I listed above, but, like I said, the clashes might not even be listed if there is no letter transfer. The needles you are seeing coming out of the lips are actually clashes from the wreath on the reverse (which are considered non listed attributes). Die cracks are another thing that are not listed attributes. When a die crack becomes thick enough it is considered a die break and is then listed. This page helps explain a lot of what I just said in photos. I said the date is normal after 2 1/2 digits but, that is all subjective to the year and mm combination. Most of the time if the date position is not 3 denticles then it is normal. It is all explained on this page. http://www.vamworld.com/Attribution+101 |
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Valued Member
United States
88 Posts |
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Valued Member
United States
88 Posts |
Definitley not 2A, but could be another
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Pillar of the Community
743 Posts |
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Valued Member
United States
88 Posts |
You are a STINKIN Genius!
That's it. exactly that one.
I appreciate all of your participation and efforts. I really do appreciate it.
All the best to you,
EndTheFed
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Pillar of the Community
743 Posts |
Not a genius, just studied VAMs for some time. That attribution link I provided you will make you just as much of a "genius" as the rest of us.
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Replies: 19 / Views: 4,081 |
Posted 07/11/2014 10:06 pm
