Why Bother Purchasing Canadian Coins If Not Graded By ICCS?

I believe we have talked about this same coin in another post somewhere.
I can't seem to find it..

Shaft you are right.. this coin was talked about a bit earlier... in a discussion regarding B.A.'s grading... The seller stated that it was B.A. that graded this coin...

I personally think this coin is either photographed poorly or must be seen in hand... Sure graders may have an "off" day.. but if this is truely B.A.s grade I think most of us agreed it would hold up.

My question is why is this coin being brought up... I don't see the relation to the current chatter or topic in this thread.

Now my own point of view as to why get things graded by ICCS... From what I have read most of the people here accept the way ICCS grades canadian coins and understands that there are differences in grading versus the U.S. TPG'ers.

I think the majority of the complaints come from the fact that ICCS is either outdated, in their holders and the lack of use with the internet, as well as how much they give credit to the fields and leave eye appeal and details almost out of the equation.

All valid points..

The good points to ICCS is that they are really a VERY small company. When you submit your coins there is only a handful of people that grade the coins. (I was told two.. but that info could be wrong) If that's true that means there's a much greater chance of consistency in their grading time and time again. (sure there are cases where coins are cracked out for resubmission and grade higher/lower but I would guess if you were to compare volume of total coins versus discrepancies in resubmissions the percentage would be very VERY low) So with ICCS you get a bit more consistency and probably a whole lot of experience. I'm not saying you DONT get that with PCGS or NGC I just don't think you will get it in the same way as such a small operation as ICCS.

For me.. I'm just a recreational collector.. I don't really pick up or even look at "the big coins"... most of my coins cost less than $20 and few if any are much over $100 mark (but that's just how I collect) so I'm a lot less likely to get graded coins at all...

Great topic.. and I love hearing the opinions out there!

I have a few really nice condition U.S. and Canadian coins that have significant value, in all three metals.

None of the coins in my collection are slabbed.
For me the only reason I have a coin slabbed is if I think it would sell better into the U.S. or Canadian markets.

The vast majority of coins sold on the Australian market and I suspect the British and European markets also, are not slabbed. The question of which is the most respected grading Company does not arise.

I notice that most of the significantly valuable coins sold by the World's leading auction houses are not slabbed. Authenticity and grading are opinions are offered by the auctioneer, but the reputation of the auctioneer depends on them.

Museums never display their coins in slabs.

"Buy the coin, not the slab"

Wade:


The technology is there. A quick browse through the Photography forum will show you that. The problem, when it comes to the business end, is that without a significant time and monetary investment to properly showcase an item you will never bring it to the level of the in-person coin dealing experience. That simply isn't possible when you're running a website with hundreds or thousand of products or an are an ebay auctioneer and must photograph everything. When I was tasked with creating my store's website, I was new to the coin market and researched existing sites and that was the first thing that stood out to me. The standard eCommerce interface is fine for items with consistent quality, such as RCM product. But When putting a significant amount of money on the table for a numismatic piece, a collector will undoubted want to pore over every detail. Pictures can tell only part of the story of that coin. Or worse, they can be doctored to make it look that much better. This is why I say the closest thing to a standard we have that is less likely to be fudged is the TPGing.

Doubleeagle59... You could not be more wrong. The finest of all Canadian decimal coins (Pittman, Belzberg, Elias, Ted Frick, Stewart Blay, Canadiana and Perth collections), are in PCGS holders for very good reasons... The coins I send to PCGS are usually in the top 5 for grades. Don't think for a second, that a high grade gem coin spotted in a ICCS/CCCS hard holder won't be bought, and cracked out in a heartbeat and sent in to PCGS... Sandy Campbell, Joe Iorio and Greg Jones (some of Canada's top dealers in best-graded coins) have been doing it for years... When you see an ICCS flip in their showcase, it is because the coin will not reach the desired grade or there is a colour or cleaning issue (i.e., graded genuine) with the coin... I learned the hard way, buying ICCS MS-65 Red coins from various dealers - only to realize later that 75% red, really is not "red"...

I am perfectly ok with selling coins in ICCS flips - because the Canadian market demands it. For my personal collection, I have much stricter and higher standards in MS-65, MS-66 and MS-67+ grades and also what is defined as "Red". In time, I doubt my decisions will be "very costly", in fact, I expect the opposite. You see that now, when two equally graded coins hit the auction block, but one has higher preservation of lustre and higher eye appeal (and eye appeal counts with PCGS).

Both viewpoints are perfectly valid. We are talking about two totally different markets (and price points!) here.

This IS such a great debate! I seriously am learning so much ...(I really still consider myself quite the NEWB) SPP great points!

One other point I was just reminded about and people please correct me if I'm wrong.. but PCGS will stand behind their "grade" in the event that you submit your coin to be regraded and it doesn't meet the orginal grade they will pay you the difference... am I correct?

It is true that many of Canada's finest decimals are housed in PCGS holders. Primarily because most of those coins (Pittman, Belzberg, etc.) were many of the first coins TPG'd long ago before there was even a ICCS. This is not the case today and almost all of Canada's finest decimals now end up in ICCS flips as this is what the Canadian market requires.

Devlec..for those that are "in the know" about Canadian coins, understand that when it comes to grading Canadian coins, Brian Cornwell and Bob Armstrong are considered Canada's premier coin graders and there opinions are highly respected by almost all dealers and collectors.