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Straight Scoop On Die Cracks, Chips, Breaks

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bonham3's Avatar
United States
346 Posts
 Posted 11/21/2007  7:29 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add bonham3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
In response to a thread in one of my earlier posts
stating the sequence of die breakdown.
1. crack
2. chip
3. break
that order makes sense. so as I am still learning, I would
like to know the best explanation of a die gouge.
also, I have read confusing info on Cuds. one article will
state that a Cud is a die break (period) and others state
a Cud is a die break only in certain areas of a coin.
As far as premiums pertaining to any and all of the above,
i guess would depend one which coin,where,size, etc.? so that could be another post to start another time. A case of is bigger always better ? or in the field or on relief ? Etc......
Valued Member
ziggy9's Avatar
United States
499 Posts
 Posted 11/21/2007  8:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ziggy9 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
hi
A die gouge is a mark left on the coin during the process if removing build up or clash marks. While cleaning the die for whatever reason the tool leaves a "gouge" in the die that then transfers to the coin.
A Cud is a die break that involves the rim of the coin. If its not on the rim its not a Cud its just a chip.
Richard
Valued Member
bonham3's Avatar
United States
346 Posts
 Posted 11/21/2007  11:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bonham3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
O.K. Thank's. Got the cud/rim thing down once and for all.
Now, how can you tell the diff. between a gouge and a chip, or even
a small crack or break for that matter ?
also, you stated a Cud is a chip, could it also be a crack
or a break ?

Valued Member
ziggy9's Avatar
United States
499 Posts
 Posted 11/22/2007  06:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ziggy9 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A gouge is made by a tool being used on the die. a chip, crack, or break are various stages of damage that happen to the die during use. A die will crack showing a raised hairline on the coin. A piece of the die will chip off along that crack creating a chip on the coin. Eventually the damage will cause the die to break showing as various types of major damage to the coin.

I have several cents from the 1950's that show tiny cracks within the numbers of the dates. these then become the "filled date" coins that were so common in that time period. I kept them just to show that progression.

A Cud will start as a die crack that runs from one section of the rim to another section of the rim. It will sometimes then show as a retained break, a crack where the piece within the crack is either slightly receded or protruding from the surface of the coin. When that piece falls off the die a Cud will occur.

Hope this helps

Richard
Valued Member
bonham3's Avatar
United States
346 Posts
 Posted 11/22/2007  10:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bonham3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you again

that clears up the mechanics of them all.
guess it just takes experience to determine
if a gouge is not a chip etc. both would leave a raised area
on the surface of the coin as would a small crack or break.
as they all would be die impressions one way or another.
at least I can verify now the major diff's.
Bedrock of the Community
coop's Avatar
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 11/22/2007  11:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A die gouge/scratch will be straight or curved slightly. A die Crack/chip/break will be in a random line, usually not straight. A die dot is either a gouge on the field or an area or an area breaking away from wear. Usually die gouges will be in the fields. Die cracks/chips/breaks can be on the devices (letters/numbers/details) or through a field. Usually they start from in a device.
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Joeyuk's Avatar
United States
383 Posts
 Posted 11/22/2007  12:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Joeyuk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I always thought of this as an internal Cud. I guess it's just a chip.
Straight-Scoop-On-Die-Cracks,-Chips,-Breaks
Member
United States
703 Posts
 Posted 11/22/2007  12:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Errorcoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A Cud is slang for die break. The nickel above could be called a Cud. Where it is makes no difference.

errrror
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foundinrolls's Avatar
United States
3507 Posts
 Posted 11/23/2007  12:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add foundinrolls to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The nickel shows a large die chip. Purists consider a Cud the result of a coin being struck by a die that has a break involving the edge of the coin.

Interior Cud is not the term used although there was a time when it was interchangeable. That was a Frank Spadone thing and many of us are still trying to straighten out some of his mistakes in terminology.

Die chips are raised spots on a coin that are the result of small areas of the die that break away on the interior portions of the die. As mentioned, clogged letters, numbers and small raised bumps would be die chips.

A die crack, usually has what I describe as a lightning bolt look. It is thin and raised and not always a perfect line. It is usually fairly thin, although a major die crack can look wider but will still be somewhat jagged in appearance. Die cracks will often develop into die breaks where there are many major raised lines visible on a coin due to disintegration of a die.

Not all die breaks result in a Cud. Some coins like Shield nickels are known to be struck by broken dies until the dies would practically fall apart before they were changed. They are loaded with small raised lines as a result.

A die gouge is as described above, a damage to the die that results in a raised portion on the coin. Most often linear, it can sometimes be curved. It is the result of a tool doing damage to the die. It is thought that the extra leaves on Wisconsin State Quarters are a result of intentional gouges placed on the dies by a mint employee. We sometimes call die gouges, tool marks.

Don't confuse die chips with the sometimes bumpy surfaces on copper-plated zinc cents. You will sometimes see small raised bumps that are the result of corrosion under the plating.
Edited by foundinrolls
11/23/2007 12:28 am
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