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1107 Song Dyn? Help Appreciated.

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Chute72's Avatar
United States
1314 Posts
 Posted 04/13/2015  06:58 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Chute72 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I would appreciate any help with this coin. I am a novice with Oriental coins but I did take some notes years ago when comparing it to an image in a book.
The book: Coins, An Illustrated Survey 650 BC to the Present Day - Price, 1980 ed., pg.299, plate 1434
Comments: 1107 Song Dyn, inscribed "coin of the Daguan era."
1) Is this correct?
2) What does it mean?
3) Where can I learn more?
4) Is this a fake? (It doesn't show any wear other than light smooth wear - no dings.)



1107-Song-Dyn?--Help-Appreciated.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16845 Posts
 Posted 04/13/2015  08:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1. More or less, yes, it is correct, except for the unfortunate answer to question 4 below.

2. "1107" is the approximate date. "Sog Dyn" is short for "Song Dynasty", the era in which the coin was issued. The "Daguan era" is sometimes written "Da Guan", as these are the two characters used on the coin (at the two and six o'clock positions); this period actually extended from AD 1107-1110 and was the third period during the reign of the emperor Huizong.

3. Wikipedia gives you some history of the emperor himself here. Huizong was one of the most artistically inclined of the emperors of China; aside from being a skilled poet, painter and musician, he was a master calligrapher and is said to have personally created the master coins from which his circulation coinage were copied and cast. The script on this coin is written in the "Slender gold" calligraphy style invented by the emperor himself.

You haven't told us how large your coin is. These coins come in several different denominations, distinguished only by size. The 1 cash is about 25mm across, 2 cash 30mm, 3 cash 33mm, 5 cash 35mm and 10 cash 42mm. The larger ones are rarer and worth more, as they were only issued for a few years; apparently, they were withdrawn because they were heavily counterfeited.

4. Here we come to the bad news - I'm fairly certain your coin is not genuine, and not a mediaeval counterfeit, either. It does not have what I would consider a genuine "patina", but looks rather more like the artificially aged pseudo-antiques that have been all too easily obtainable in China for decades now. To see examples of what genuine Da Guan coins look like and compare them with other fakes, check out the zeno.ru pages for this type.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 04/13/2015  09:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have about 150 Chinese cash coins of various dynasties and emperors. Schjoth is the reference I use.
This coin is very inconsistent with the fabric of any of the coins I have in that part of my collection.

@ Sap: Just caught up with the fact that you are the recipient of th 2014 Paul Simon Award.
Congratulations!
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echizento's Avatar
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23731 Posts
 Posted 04/13/2015  3:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sel what is the Paul Simon award? There is one here in the US is it the same in Australia?
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16845 Posts
 Posted 04/13/2015  7:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It was announced on the forum last year.

The American equivalent, I suppose, would be one of the higher ANA Service Awards.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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echizento's Avatar
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23731 Posts
 Posted 04/13/2015  7:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry my memory is slipping, can't remember that far back.
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Chute72's Avatar
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1314 Posts
 Posted 04/13/2015  7:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chute72 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coin is about 41mm in dia. I've had it for years, and I'm sure I didn't pay much for it. That it is likely a counterfeit is not all bad news. Anyone that has collected for very long, has picked up a few. I consider it a novelty and a good learning piece. Thanks all, for opening new doors, and for giving me the excuse to avoid yard work.
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