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1921-P Baffled... Help On This VAM!

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srs77's Avatar
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 Posted 04/13/2015  6:34 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add srs77 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Ok, this coin finally arrived and I might be even more confused than before it arrived.

SsuperDdave I'd really appreciate your input on this 21-P. I've provided two decent pics one each of the obverse and reverse and then 'links' to two LARGE versions. Only click the link if you can handle the bandwidth.

Can't wait to hear everyone's thoughts on this one.

Thanks in advance...

1921-P-Baffled...--Help-On-This-VAM!

1921-P-Baffled...--Help-On-This-VAM!

http://coins.scootsbrewotr.com/imag...-obv-ccf.jpg

http://coins.scootsbrewotr.com/imag...-rev-ccf.jpg
Edited by srs77
04/13/2015 6:34 pm
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Cascade's Avatar
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 Posted 04/13/2015  6:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cascade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Shot in the dark @ VAM 3AN1
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 04/13/2015  8:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Shot in the dark @ VAM 3AN1


One of the incremental improvements in attribution skills involves getting a feel for what is and isn't a common crack location or direction. I just got burned by that in Dave's 1888-O thread. "Uncommon" does not mean "unique."

But it applies here, too. The crack through ES_OF is kinda common, but not in that direction. It's usually hhigher, either straight around the periphery or extending downward instead of upward. That makes it a focal point for you - something which can drastically narrow down the possibilities, unlike most of the obverse cracks.

Using that as a given would have eliminated 3AN1 immediately. The cracks are somewhat similar but 3AN1's doesn't tilt the same direction.

Now, for some .
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Chute72's Avatar
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 Posted 04/13/2015  8:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chute72 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
3AN1 has some strong similarities, but not an exact match.
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srs77's Avatar
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 Posted 04/13/2015  8:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add srs77 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've already got a headache from hitting my head against the wall. Maybe I need to put it down for awhile. But you know I can't do that...
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 04/13/2015  9:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There's no guarantee that any feature you see on this coin is recorded anywhere. That's the part, knowing there's probably a 60% chance that it's not possible to attribute.
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Chute72's Avatar
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 Posted 04/13/2015  9:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chute72 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just getting ahead of myself, but if it isn't attributable, it may be a discovery. And if it is attributable, it could be used to add to the crack guide list.
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dave700x's Avatar
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 Posted 04/13/2015  9:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dave700x to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This just shows how much work is left to go on the 21-P die crack guide. Any scribbles on the TF's? That could make it more fun....
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srs77's Avatar
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 Posted 04/13/2015  9:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add srs77 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dave, I wish I could say there was but it appears as though there are no scribbles in the tail feathers.
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 Posted 04/13/2015  9:35 pm  Show Profile   Check thedollarman's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add thedollarman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Is the last 1 double punched?
Feel free to call me Will.
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srs77's Avatar
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 Posted 04/13/2015  9:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add srs77 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are multiple die cracks going into and out of the second 1 but there does not appear to be any doubling in any portion of the date.
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thedollarman's Avatar
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 Posted 04/13/2015  9:44 pm  Show Profile   Check thedollarman's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add thedollarman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Okay, what's with the top of the 1 than? I assume its just the lighting?
Feel free to call me Will.
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srs77's Avatar
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 Posted 04/13/2015  10:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add srs77 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Let me take a much closer look. It does appear doubled in my picture, when I looked earlier it was not in the best conditions. I'll get it under light and see if I can see the doubling there.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 04/13/2015  10:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
And if it is attributable, it could be used to add to the crack guide list.


This, most importantly.


Quote:
Dave, I wish I could say there was but it appears as though there are no scribbles in the tail feathers.


A good thing. You just eliminated all the Scribbles VAMs. Unless it's an LDS with the scribbles worn off.


Quote:
Okay, what's with the top of the 1 than? I assume its just the lighting?


Sure looks doubled to me; that's not a hub feature. I have a *ton* of D2 images without it.

Edit to add: No reason it can't be MD, though, so I'm gonna leave that be. I'm looking at every single D2, though.
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Chute72's Avatar
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 Posted 04/13/2015  10:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chute72 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sometimes that appearance of doubling will be due to lighting, and sometimes crud is removed and the untoned area is exposed.
In my humble opinion, the 1921's and Peace dollars in general are a departure from traditional VAMming in that they seek to identify every die pair and not just every die classification. The result is that any "die poop" is treated as a discovery. Not a criticism, just an observation.
Yes, the '21 needs work. Some, like the 3BH, 3bI and 3BR, describe the scribbles without any picture. In the future we may have to break the choices down, and each volunteer work on a smaller portion.
Back to it.
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Chute72's Avatar
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 Posted 04/13/2015  10:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chute72 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not a doubled "1" I have the same VAM in front of me.
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