| Author |
 Replies: 53 / Views: 7,265 |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
5205 Posts |
Not sure if this update has been posted yet. I wonder if the government will actually hand the coins over as ordered or if they will tie it back up in the courts again. http://news.yahoo.com/u-must-return...finance.htmlU.S. must return rare double eagle gold coins to family (Reuters) - The U.S. government must return 10 exceptionally rare gold coins worth millions of dollars each to a Pennsylvania family from which the purloined coins were seized a decade ago, a federal appeals court ruled on Friday. By a 2-1 vote, the 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Philadelphia said Joan Langbord and her sons Roy and David are the rightful owners of the double eagle $20 gold pieces, after the government ignored their claim to the coins and missed a deadline to seek their forfeiture. "The government knew that it was obligated to bring a judicial civil forfeiture proceeding or to return the property, but refused," Circuit Judge Marjorie Rendell wrote. "Having failed to do so, it must return the Double Eagles to the Langbords." Patricia Hartman, a spokeswoman for U.S. Attorney Zane Memeger in Philadelphia, said: "We are weighing our options." The Philadelphia Mint in 1933 produced 445,500 double eagles. But they were not circulated because President Franklin Roosevelt, trying to halt a bank panic, removed gold coins from circulation and made ownership of large amounts illegal. Most of the coins were melted down, but a few were smuggled out, including one that fetched $7.6 million at a 2002 auction after having once been possessed by Egypt's King Farouk. The government had long suspected without proving that the late Israel Switt, a gold dealer and father of Joan Langbord, had smuggled some of the coins with the help of a Mint employee. It seized the Langbords' double eagles after the family located the coins in a safe deposit box once belonging to Switt, and sought to have the Mint authenticate them. But when the Langbords filed a "seized asset claim" in September 2005, the government neither returned the coins nor sought their forfeiture within 90 days, as required under the federal Civil Asset Forfeiture Reform Act. The family sued, but a federal jury in July 2011 said the government could keep the coins, and the trial judge later agreed. Rendell, though, said the CAFRA violation justified the coins' return. Barry Berke, a lawyer for the Langbords said: "The Langbords are thrilled to receive their property back after fighting to vindicate their rights for over a decade." The case is Langbord et al v. U.S. Department of the Treasury et al, 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, No. 12-4574. (This version of the story corrects last name in seventh and eighth paragraphs to "Switt" from "Swift") (Reporting by Jonathan Stempel in New York; Additional reporting by Alison Frankel; editing by Andrew Hay and Phil Berlowitz) |
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
2589 Posts |
Whoever bought the King Farouk specimen must be fuming right now, if those coins reach market, the owner of the Farkouk specimin will likely lose $5 - $6 million lol
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
2543 Posts |
Quote:
Barry Berke, a lawyer for the Langbords said: "The Langbords are thrilled to receive their property back after fighting to vindicate their rights for over a decade." Good luck getting them back. A federal jury and a Federal Judge both agreed that these coins were stolen from the mint by Grandad, I am sure the gov't has no intention of rewarding thievery . The gov't will just find another federal judge to overrule the two appeals court judges. Hope the Langbords have deep pockets. |
|
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
The only winners in this ongoing saga are the legal eagles.
They should have kept their stash permanently hidden, and not to fight each other in future generations, as to who would keep them.
The Langbords will have to sell their coins, (if they are lucky enough to eventually retain them), to pay for their own legal representation. If they don't retain them, all they are faced with are huge legal costs.
Even the taxpayers loose, so that the Government's lawyers fees can be paid.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1801 Posts |
I am curious about one thing. Since they showed up in a safe deposit box that was rented by the Langfords after Israel Swifts death, the family obviously knew these coins existed (even if they claim they didn't understand the significance of the date). I wonder if they paid inheritance tax on the $70,000,000 (10 X 7mil) that they received from his death, or did they commit tax fraud as well?
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
8516 Posts |
I hope the government keeps them. You can't reward that kind of thing no matter how much time has passed.
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5394 Posts |
If you love liberty and justice this is wonderful news. If the 1933 double eagle is illegal to own so are all the rest of the back door jobs of the past 200 years that should not exist.
The most shameful aspect of the entire 1933 Double Eagle saga is the ones that were melted and are forever lost to the numismatic community. I am willing to bet there are at least another five plus pieces out there that will surface given time.
To the guy who bought the Bally hooed Only one legal to own piece............to bad so sad! When this saga ultimately ends up in the Langbords favour that guy should sue the USA for fraudulent misrepresentation. Go Langbords!
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1913 Posts |
Quote:
If you love liberty and justice this is wonderful news. Absolutely! While it seems logical that the coins may have been stolen, nobody can say for sure because all involved are dead. Regardless, the quantity pales in comparison to all the gold that was stolen from US citizens due Roosevelt decree that US citizens could no longer own gold. At the root of it was wealth confiscation and his desire to control. Those who didn't hand over their gold are real patriots in my opinion. Quote:
By a 2-1 vote Side bar here, but this just irks me. Judges don't vote! They issue rulings which are supposed to be based on the law. Two of the three judges got it right here. The feds missed a deadline that's required by law, so they lose their claim. What happened way back when doesn't matter. Edited by Bret
04/17/2015 11:12 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
506 Posts |
Quote:
The gov't will just find another federal judge to overrule the two appeals court judges. According to the US court system, the next level to go would be to appeal the case to the US Supreme Court. The SC is very selective in what cases they hear. Also, the government must have reasonable cause to appeal the case, such as a mistrial, not just because they don't like the decision (although they will probably find some way to argue a mistrial).  Edited by coinlover168
04/17/2015 11:22 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1748 Posts |
The 1927-D is about to become the true rarity of the series. I think more 1933's will appear on the market if the Langbords get the coins back. Maybe we'll even see some real 1964-D Peace dollars surface. Edited by DoubleEagle20
04/18/2015 12:10 am
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
589 Posts |
Quote:
I hope the government keeps them. You can't reward that kind of thing no matter how much time has passed.
-- 52Raymo I politely disagree. Although it isn't US law, Polish law is very clear on the matter. Quote:
Article 174, Polish Civil Code: The possessor of a movable who is not the owner thereof shall acquire ownership, if he has been in control and possession for three years without interruption, unless he has acquired possession in bad faith. Article 176 goes on to state that if a change in ownership has occurred, and if the predecessor acquired the property in bad faith, then if the new owner is able to remain in control and possession of the property for a period of 20 years, it legally becomes his. As far as I'm concerned, that is how all civilized society should be. It is very clear cut and straight forward. Furthermore, the United States Government has spent in far excess of $200 to try to win back $200 face value, which is what their whole claim hinges off of, that the coins were never monetized (how much the gold is worth is rather irrelevant as the official US price of gold is not spot; and how much the coins sell to collectors for is irrelevant as well for the stated face value legal defense). The whole lot of them should be prosecuted of misappropriating taxpayer dollars. But, as most things always go anymore, governmental immunity will supersede all law, as the government and all its officers can do no wrong; and the government will just keep possession of the coins, either legally or otherwise (as who forces the government to do anything if it doesn't want to?) After all, if it doesn't willingly hand them over, it'd be an act of treason to ever attempt to get them back yourselves. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1913 Posts |
Polish law is different than US law. There are time limitations on prosecution for most criminal matters. However, civil matters are different. In most places in the US, if you can demonstrate that a piece of property was stolen from you, then you'll get it back. It doesn't matter how long it has been or how many times it has changed hands. I actually think this is a good thing. I think back to how so many people had their possessions stolen by the Nazis. No matter how long it takes, they (or their heirs) should get the property back. Quote:
Furthermore, the United States Government has spent in far excess of $200 to try to win back $200 face value, which is what their whole claim hinges off of, that the coins were never monetized (how much the gold is worth is rather irrelevant as the official US price of gold is not spot; and how much the coins sell to collectors for is irrelevant as well for the stated face value legal defense). The whole lot of them should be prosecuted of misappropriating taxpayer dollars.
But, as most things always go anymore, governmental immunity will supersede all law, as the government and all its officers can do no wrong; and the government will just keep possession of the coins, either legally or otherwise (as who forces the government to do anything if it doesn't want to?) After all, if it doesn't willingly hand them over, it'd be an act of treason to ever attempt to get them back yourselves. You're spot on! It's amazing how things are the same here as they are in Poland. Most of those in the government (to be fair there are a few exceptions) mostly serve themselves and not those they're supposed to represent. |
|
Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
8516 Posts |
Put em in the Smitty on display.
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
506 Posts |
Quote:
Put em in the Smitty on display. The National Numismatic Collection already has 2 examples that were saved just for them. The collection will go on display at the Smithsonian on July 1st. https://goccf.com/t/226558 |
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Quote:
Regardless, the quantity pales in comparison to all the gold that was stolen from US citizens due Roosevelt decree that US citizens could no longer own gold. No gold was stolen from the citizens. The government paid the going market rate for all the gold surrendered. I take that back they did "steal" gold from at least one citizen Izzy Switt. One day he was seen lugging a heavy briefcase and the police stopped him and made him open the case. It was full of gold. It was confiscated under the threat of charging Izzy with hoarding gold in violation of the Presidential order, even though Izzy was a LICENSED gold dealer and jeweler. Edited by Conder101
04/18/2015 11:24 am
|
| |
Replies: 53 / Views: 7,265 |
Posted 04/17/2015 6:15 pm
