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 Replies: 19 / Views: 3,766 |
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Pillar of the Community
Hong Kong
1270 Posts |
Here are three half dollar coins during Mutsuhito (Meiji) reign. The emblems on the coins change with time. 1871 - one side is a dragon, the other side a shining sun 1897 - one side is still a dragon, the other side shows the denomination 1907 - one side is a shining sun, the other side the denomination, no dragon seen on this coin Who knows the reason why it appears in that way? The only reason I guess is Japan wanted to be more distinguishable from Ching's dynasty of China whose emblem is also a dragon. Agreed? 1871  1897  1907  My last question: can anyone tell the name of the flowers or leaves indicated by the arrows? Thank you for any comments. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2805 Posts |
The flowers on the left are probably paulownia leaves and blossoms. The chrysanthemum flower is fairly well-known to be the symbol of the Emperor of Japan. In the same way, the paulownia is the symbol of the Prime Minister of Japan (and the Japanese government in general). You can see these flowers on the modern 500 yen coin as well.
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
If I were to put myself in the position of a poorly educated person and Japanese, I would be happy to see the shining sun on my coin.
As the standard of education improved seeing "50 SEN", commensurate with the size and weight of the coin would have been sufficient for me to know what I have.
Arabic numerals would have been in common use in written language and understood after about 1870, and so the type of 1873-1905 would have been accepted as normal by the population. That is despite the fact that the dragon still appears in that period.
I think that the shining sun makes it's re appearance after 1905, due to strong Japanese culture and perhaps stronger nationalistic influences.
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Valued Member
Japan
349 Posts |
^ yes, on the reverse are:
left: paulownia
right: chrysanthemum
The reason why the dragon went away is most likely Sinophobia after the first Sino-Japanese war.
All 1 yen coins minted since 1901 were not circulated in Japan.
Lower denominations were made about 25% lighter in 1906 (1907 for 10 sen), after an increase in the silver price. They used the opportunity to get rid of the dragon.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
3831 Posts |
This is an interesting topic that I had to do some research before writing. The origin of Japan mint actually originated from UK and Hong Kong. Hong Kong mint sold their equipment to Osaka mint. The Royal Mint provided some pattern coins and the design essentially continued on with some modification. These pattern coins are extremely rare in any condition. The British have also provided some pattern designs for China which also affected their designs. Here is an example: http://coins.ha.com/itm/japan/japan...3015-25234.sI'm not too sure if I would buy the argument of Sinophobia. Afterall, the dragon design on the 1 yen coin continued to be struck until 1914 unlike the smaller denomination coins which ended in around 1905. According to this site, it has provided some interesting information: http://chigasakiws.web.fc2.com/meij...n-ginka.htmlDue to the Russo-Japan war, circulation of 1 yen coins were banned in 1897. Coins continued to be struck strictly for overseas market. In order to meet demand, older coins were counterstamped. (which also explains why you cannot find any official counterstamp past 1897). These coins were actually very popular until Korea and Taiwan started to ban them from circulation. To be honest - this is the first time I learned that 1 yen coins struck in 1898 onwards were only meant for overseas. As of why the design have changed for smaller denomination in 1906, I believe Japan was on a propaganda campaign after the Russo-Japan war. Phobia would be the very opposite. My partial coin collection http://www.omnicoin.com/collection/gxseriesMy numismatics articles and collection: http://www.gxseries.com/numis/numis_index.htmRegularly updated at least once a month. |
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Valued Member
Japan
349 Posts |
1897 was when Japan switched to the gold standard. You can see the change more clearly if you look at the gold coins. Before 1897: Dragon on obverse After 1897: Radiant sun on obverse (no dragon) See the bottom of page 38 (page 5 in the pdf) of this, published by a branch of the Japanese government: http://dl.ndl.go.jp/view/download/d...ternativeNo=It basically says that after the first Sino-Japanese war, public opinion was that the dragon was unfit to be used as a symbol of the emperor. |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
3831 Posts |
Very interesting history bungle. I learned something new. Many thanks!
I must ask this - while the Japanese gold and copper coins were switched from the dragon design to the rising sun in 1897, why did it take much longer for the silver coins to follow suit?
Second question - If you look at the coinage of Korean Empire while Korea was under Japanese rule, there were gold coins struck with the dragon design until 1909 and silver coins until 1910. Nickel copper and copper coins were struck with the flying phoenix (?) design. If this was a case of removing Chinese elements from coin design, wouldn't this have been affected as well? After all, all Korean coins during this time were struck in Osaka mint.
My partial coin collection http://www.omnicoin.com/collection/gxseriesMy numismatics articles and collection: http://www.gxseries.com/numis/numis_index.htmRegularly updated at least once a month. |
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Valued Member
Japan
349 Posts |
Korea still had an emperor until 1910.
I think it is like asking why it took so long for the US to remove the fasces from its dime.
It was probably not enough of a problem to warrant a design change without any changes in the weight/size of the coins.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11951 Posts |
Very interesting thread, thank you all for posting.
I recently added a type set for Japanese coins
to my collection. Information like this really
helps me in my quest.
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Pillar of the Community
 Hong Kong
1270 Posts |
gxseries: Quote:
while the Japanese gold and copper coins were switched from the dragon design to the rising sun in 1897, why did it take much longer for the silver coins to follow suit?
I think they could use paper notes in their country but the silver dollars are struck for foreign trade. This also explains why the dragon remained on the side of silver dollars than on the lower denomination coins. Businessmen like to use the currency they are familiar. |
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Pillar of the Community
Hong Kong
1270 Posts |
Bungle: Quote:
The reason why the dragon went away is most likely Sinophobia after the first Sino-Japanese war. To me, I would say the Emperor of Japan did not want to share any similarity to the loser of the War rather than Sinophobia. Quote:
All 1 yen coins minted since 1901 were not circulated in Japan. Bungle, can you elaborate more about this point? Why is the cutting line is 1901? |
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Valued Member
Japan
349 Posts |
Quote:
Quote: All 1 yen coins minted since 1901 were not circulated in Japan.
Bungle, can you elaborate more about this point? Why is the cutting line is 1901? Production of 1 yen coins was stopped in 1897. The existing coins were counterstamped with the character for silver. In 1899 the Bank of Taiwan issued notes that were redeemable for Japanese silver coins. These notes are very rare now. Perhaps one reason is because most of them were redeemed. Probably so many were being redeemed that they ran out of the counterstamped coins, and had to resume production in 1901. I do not know much about this subject, but apparently Taiwan moved to the gold standard in 1908, and import of silver was banned! This appears to be reflected in the low mintage of 1908 1 yen coins. However, for reasons unknown to me, once again coins were minted in 1912 and 1914 with very high mintages. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
807 Posts |
The silver yen was demonetized in 1897 and a very large number of pieces melted.
This measure, however, resulted in the existence of no coins between the silver 50 sen and the gold 5 yen. As a result, the silver yen was revived pretty soon afterwards, being used as collateral for an issue of 1-yen silver convertible notes by the Bank of Japan, similar to the silver certificates of the United States. These notes are interesting in part because they bear fine-line engravings duplicating the denomination side of the coin, on both face and back.
The Hong Kong mint machinery, although bought by the Japanese, was found unsatisfactory. If you read the reports on the subject, the Osaka Mint was actually fitted out with machinery brought directly from Europe.
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Pillar of the Community
Hong Kong
1270 Posts |
Bungle, thank you so much for your input, I learn a lot from your comments.
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Pillar of the Community
Hong Kong
1270 Posts |
Publis, also thank you for your information.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
3831 Posts |
bungle - there was a change in Korean coin size in 1907. At this point of time, Korea was essentially a Japanese puppet state after the Japan-Korea treaty in 1905. I don't see how Emperor Yunghui had much say after Emperor Gwangmu was forced to abdicate by the Japanese.
If the argument was to remove any Chinese related elements in 1897, this does not make any sense at all. The first coins struck for Korea in Osaka mint was in 1905. I still do not see any relationship with the so called "sinophobia".
publius - I do not understand this line:
" This measure, however, resulted in the existence of no coins between the silver 50 sen and the gold 5 yen. "
When looking at mintage figures, there does seem to be coins struck sporadically after 1897. If this is about silver yen coins not struck in between 1897 - 1901, I believe the mint was busy recalling circulated 1 yen coins to be counterstamped. When the source dried out, that was when new batch of coins were struck.
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Replies: 19 / Views: 3,766 |
Posted 05/03/2015 03:47 am
