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Lucky Cuss's Avatar
United States
4883 Posts
 Posted 05/31/2015  10:44 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Lucky Cuss to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
This looks to be a reputable seller, but a relatively expensive coin of this type offered raw on general principles just scares me to death. At this price, I can't see what excuse would suffice for its not being certified.

See: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Guatemala-8...em58c49c0217
Colligo ergo sum
Edited by Lucky Cuss
06/01/2015 08:25 am
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2015  01:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Perhaps the seller does not like plastic coffins to house his collection.

Or perhaps, he is associated with the Romanian forgery ring that made it.

The coin is suspicious at best and I would not bid on the coin as genuine.
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Numisma's Avatar
United States
4963 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2015  02:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numisma to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think it looks fake.
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MathieuMa's Avatar
France
1591 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2015  05:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MathieuMa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Indeed, it's not a good idea to buy those raw from ebay .
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pepactonius's Avatar
United States
9395 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2015  07:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pepactonius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Indeed, it's not a good idea to buy those raw from ebay .


If counterfeiters can make a good fake coin, why can't they also make fake PCGS or NGC slabs and put the coins in them?
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Lucky Cuss's Avatar
United States
4883 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2015  08:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lucky Cuss to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
If counterfeiters can make a good fake coin, why can't they also make fake PCGS or NGC slabs and put the coins in them?


The Chinese have certainly done just that, and if the certification number is gotten right, such can be very deceptive. Usually a photo comparison or info as to where that specific coin resides or has been sold will then expose the ruse.
Colligo ergo sum
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MathieuMa's Avatar
France
1591 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2015  11:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MathieuMa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
pepactonius : indeed, they did that already - numerous modern fakes are in plastic tombs, and contemporary ones.

The stuff is, serious auction houses will give you your money back if there is an issue for raw coins (and for certified ones, NGC will).
I don't think we was fake slabs for such coins yet (so if there is an issue, the grader warranty will apply)
In any case, you are sure that the coins were at least checked, that you have proper pictures on hand.
ebay is risky as you are buying from un unknown 3rd party most of the time (although you still have some very serious sellers there though .).

In any case, you have to really know well those coins when buying, even more when it's from unsafe sources as ebay.
At least, the seller above accept return avec 14 days :)
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2015  12:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In the case of spurious slabs, an auction house should always provide a guarantee and return your money. However, there are some cases where there is almost no recourse beyond an individual seller on ebay.

If you buy a slabbed coin from someone on ebay - ebay will try to duck out of the deal because they rely on the fact the coin is in an NGC slab. If it is a counterfeit slab not done by NGC - NGC will definitely be off the hook. ebay will claim they had no way of knowing and throw the ball to the individual seller. Since there is also a no return of TPG graded coin policy on ebay the seller can claim he too relied on the NGC guarantee.

Now that PayPal and ebay are no longer owned by the same people - I would try to use the PayPal guarantee but expect some push back.

The buyer of TPG coins (NGC) needs to be very careful that he/she is getting the actual NGC coin. The buyer has a responsibility to check the number on the slab and the photos in the on line file to make sure the coin is identical. If the slab is NOT PICTURED in the archive I would suggest NOT BIDDING unless you know the seller very well.
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