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Questions From Returning Collector

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Valued Member
Catbert's Avatar
United States
72 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2008  1:35 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Catbert to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hello! My first post here as a 2nd time around collector. This board looks to be very helpful to me and I hope you'll welcome a newbie.

When I was a kid in the 60s growing up in a small town in Ohio, I began to collect coins. I remember going into a local dealer who was a good guy and I did my best to fill my Lincoln Cent and Jefferson nickel blue book collection. In the 70s, my Dad bought proof sets for me. When I was a junior in HS, I was more interested in buying a stereo system than collecting (even hung my turntable from the ceiling to avoid vibration) and persuaded my Dad to buy "my" collection to fund my need to play Aerosmith and Zepplin loudly. He did so, but kept the collection until he gave back to me about 15 years ago. Needless to say, I was touched by his generosity but I really didn't revisit the hobby then. Yet, now as I approach 50 and need to find things to resolve my mid-life crisis, I want to start over again. I wish my Dad was alive today to share in my desire to get back into the hobby. I know I have so much to learn and that really excites me.

When I was visiting Richmond, VA last week, I decided drop by a local dealer and I purchased three coins that interested me:

1.) Capped Bust 1836 Half - marked VF condition, paid $75. An absolutely beautiful coin to me and as I browse this forum, I want to learn more about the various versions of this coin (I want to figure out exactly what I bought too). The dealer marked this coin as "small" for small date, but I don't see that designation in published price guides. The purchase price was a little stiff for my "budget" (what is a budget when you want to buy everything?), but as I read up on grading, I think the coin might grade higher. I really like this series, but I am fearful that I can't afford to buy too many because I really would like to buy at the VF+ level.

2.) Seated Liberty 1858 Quarter - condition unmarked, but again I'd say VF+, paid $40. Another beautiful coin that could be a series to focus on and might be more affordable to do so.

3.) Seated Liberty 1891 Dime - marked VF (looks cleaned? or it's a coin in wonderful condition - can't tell difference), paid $20.

You have no idea how excited I am to have done the above as my first foray back into the hobby.

Now, if you'll indulge me, a few questions/observations for your kind reaction.

- Is the hobby trend going exclusively toward "slabbing"? I'm really not interested in this aspect and want to be able to buy coins without those designations. Two reasons, I don't care since I'm not going to resell and secondly, I want to be be closer to the coin without a bunch of plastic in the way.

- What do you recommend for coin holders? I have the cardboard 2X2 flip covers. Is that okay for decent coins?

- What reference material should I use to stay on top of coin pricing? I bought the Whitman blue book to get a sense of what dealers pay and got some of the coin magazines for current retail pricing. Do you recommend subscribing to the gray sheets I've seen advertised instead of a magazine? I did buy the ANS grading guide to build my knowledge on that aspect.

- Do you use ebay to acquire your coins? I know that's a wide open question (I've used ebay many times before for other things), but it looks to be filled with "slabbed" coins way outside my price range. I live in a fairly small mid-west city that has just a few stores (can't wait to visit them).

- What are some suggestions you have for sizing up a dealer? What should I expect for coin markup - 10-15%?

OK, I think I've overdone it for my first post. Sorry, I'm really gung ho right now and if it wasn't a holiday, I'd be hangin out at a dealer right now.

Thanks in advance for any replies!
Pillar of the Community
Metalman's Avatar
United States
7123 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2008  1:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metalman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Welcome to the forum ! and Back to The hobby !




Is the hobby trend going exclusively toward "slabbing"? I'm really not interested in this aspect and want to be able to buy coins without those designations. Two reasons, I don't care since I'm not going to resell and secondly, I want to be be closer to the coin without a bunch of plastic in the way.

I am a raw coin collector ,, I have no desire to play the TPG game ,, There are many who feel the same way !

- What do you recommend for coin holders? I have the cardboard 2X2 flip covers. Is that okay for decent coins?

I prefer airtites for my coins,, and keep the majority of my collection in them .

- What reference material should I use to stay on top of coin pricing? I bought the Whitman blue book to get a sense of what dealers pay and got some of the coin magazines for current retail pricing. Do you recommend subscribing to the gray sheets I've seen advertised instead of a magazine? I did buy the ANS grading guide to build my knowledge on that aspect.

I recommend completed auctions ,Heritage,Teletrade and even ebay these can give you a real time accurate Idea of what certian coins are bringing in the real world ,, although many collectors use the gray sheet.

- Do you use ebay to acquire your coins? I know that's a wide open question (I've used ebay many times before for other things), but it looks to be filled with "slabbed" coins way outside my price range. I live in a fairly small mid-west city that has just a few stores (can't wait to visit them).

I buy many of my coins on ebay ,, its not always a safe place ,but with education ,and being careful ,and the help of our forum members its not so bad ,,some great deals can be found there.

- What are some suggestions you have for sizing up a dealer? What should I expect for coin markup - 10-15%?

No local dealer in my area that I will deal with ,, rude ,and way over priced ,, so taking that as a guide if you find a dealer who is fair on their pricing ,and treat you right then you have found just about everything a collector needs from a dealer .

Metalman
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Napoleon31ft's Avatar
United States
528 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2008  2:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Napoleon31ft to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
2x2 flips work for holding most coins.
I wouldn't put high grade coins in them (MS-65 and up) but they are fine.
If you are looking for a nicer way to store your coins you can buy plastic cases that fit one coin.

As far as coin prices go I use Coin World's "Coin Values" even though the prices tend to be a bit high.

There are very many coins on ebay other than just slabs. Just be careful because a lot of coins are over graded and you dont always get what they say you are going to get.
But then again I have gotten many a deal on ebay
If you are looking for a coin dealer on ebay check me out. ebay name removed ,,Please read the forum rules for posting to sell on the forum ,http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/rules.asp Metalman

I hope this helps
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ElleKitty's Avatar
United States
819 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2008  2:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ElleKitty to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Welcome to the Coin Community Forum, and welcome back to coin collecting! It's such a beautiful thing that your Dad would save your collection all those years, and give it back to you. So often parents don't understand or don't care about their children's hobbies. Such thoughtfulness hopefully makes your old collection that much more special. :)

Myself, I avoid slabbed coins like the plague. The graded slabs usually make the cost of a coin inflate dramatically. There's also the small fact that I really don't collect US coins beyond those found in circulation.

For large quantities of coins, I use the 2x2 mylar flips. They're cheap, they protect the coin. Just check them periodically to be sure the coin isn't turning green, or that the mylar isn't degrading. Periodically I mean like once a year.

For those special coins, the ones you want to take out and look at often or the ones that cost a little more than usual, I prefer the Airtite containers. They hide the edge, but show the obverse and reverse of the coin beautifully. When they get scratched up, they're replaceable.

For pricing, I tend to use Krause's World Coins. Since that won't really work for you, the best pricing guides for US coins that I see are the Greysheets. Dealer's keep them on hand, and my dealer usually leaves them laying on the countertop for anyone to grab and look through. His on-hand library also includes the RedBook (Generally the past couple of years) and a copy of the Cherrypicker's Guide.

I do buy from ebay occasionally. More often, I buy from my local dealers, and I do a lot of trading with Numismatists of similar interest. I'm sure my postal delivery person thinks I'm running a black market out of my living room, with packets arriving from four continents on a fairly regular basis. o.0

A respectable dealer should be open to a conversation. If there's nothing else going on in his shop (i.e. no other customers, no phone ringing constantly, no stack of coins or papers to be put away) then he should be able to take a little time and answer questions for you. He should always be willing to let you look at his stock close up (just don't make any fast motions toward the door. ;) )A friendly, good dealer will often bargain over his prices, coming down from the markings.

Overall, just find a dealer that you're comfortable with. :) When he starts greeting you by name, you've found a numismatic home.
Valued Member
chevrolet454ss's Avatar
United States
314 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2008  4:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chevrolet454ss to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Since you geting back into coins and need to learn out it.

1. I would buy your key dates only in slabs from the top grading companies.
A. 1916 d dime is easy faked by adding mint marks.
B. On cents they faked an lot 1914d, 1909 s.v.d. coins are faked by adding mint marks. Dealers can convert can 1944 d cent into an 1914 d no problem.
c. 1937 d nickel can be ground down to make an 3 legger with grinder.
d. 1877 , 1909 s Indians are faked . I may have paid over 500 for an fake 1877 Indian cent on ebay. I already sold it but coin dealer thought it was fake after we looked at with microscope. I sold it they sent it off to anacs to see if it will come back in body bag. I dont know yet.
E. Certain Peace dollars Like 1928 s that cost 35 bucks can have mint mark removed and will sell for like 450 with no mint mark.
On the key dates and any coin you buy over an 100 bucks I would only buy in top grading company's slabs. Like I said they have lot crooks on ebay or bad coin dealers out there selling stuff.

Dont buy coins from TV shows late at night. They are rip offs big time. They are overpriced big time with replated coins with gold, silver or whatever.

Before you buy anything study completed sales on ebay, Teletrade, greysheat, dealer buy prices on coins to see how much they will pay for them before you buy them to help figure out whats it worth fair market value.

Those coins books like Red Book , coin values books , Pgcs are written by coin dealers who want inflate the prices in the books. I see an conflict of interest since coin dealers pay to put ads in there books or mags to sell there overpriced coins.

I would do lot roll searching from your banks to get stuff build your collection at face value . You will be amazed the stuff you will find in those coin boxes at face. Example I found 150 bucks worth silver halves in coin box. I can trade them or sell to dealer to get stuff I cant find in those bank boxes to complete my collection. I can trade them for say an 1932 d or s quarter to complete my book besides paying 150 out my pocket for quarter that worth 3 bucks melted down. With trade I onley pay 10 bucks for the inflated 1932 d or s silver quarter. You get the idea on what I talking about trading stuff.

I buying completed sets like say 1909 Thur 2007 penny book. You can buy say intire book minus the 1909 s.v.b.b coin. If you build book buying each coin from dealer you will spend maybe 3 or 4 times on what its worth to build. Example I bought one book for 495 with proofs. Cost maybe 1000 or more build it. I bought it on ebay for 495 already completed minus one coin. Trust me its cheaper to buy completed sets than building sets I learned. Study and learn the market before you buy any coins to build an set. ebay is flooded with cheap sets people cant or don't have money to finish sets. Its an buyers an market on sets.

Dont buy single coins if like say an 1991 proof cent for 10 bucks. You buy an intire 1991 proof set for 11 bucks and take it out yourself. Sell the extra coins later to pay for proof penny. I had dealer try to rip me off selling an 1977 Ike dollar he removed from mint set for 20 bucks. I dont buy it and just paid 7 or 8 bucks for intire 1977 mint set with 1.82 worth coins to get my Ike dollar.

Good luck with collecting coins. Use common sense and dont buy everything you see and study about them before you buy anything. You will get burned big time if you dont know what your doing.

Chevrolet454ss.
Valued Member
Catbert's Avatar
United States
72 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2008  5:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Catbert to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great responses......thank you.
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Spider5689's Avatar
United States
2269 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2008  7:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spider5689 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Welcome to the forum and welcome back to coin collecting.

I can't add too much since everyone here said it all.
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USArmyParatrooper's Avatar
United States
1283 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2008  10:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add USArmyParatrooper to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
- Is the hobby trend going exclusively toward "slabbing"?


Most definitely not exclusively, but they are becoming more ingrained in the numismatics community. There are pros and cons, and there are problems, but (as a whole) I believe they are good for the hobby. Many prominent collectors feel differently, and some even view TPGs with disdain. Personally, if I'm going to spend $200+ dollars on a single coin I want it to be certified by one of the big four. And TPGs aren't a new thing. They have them for every major collectible; coins, comic books, sports cards, stamps etc.

quote:
- What do you recommend for coin holders? I have the cardboard 2X2 flip covers. Is that okay for decent coins?


The two-by-two's are fine. Many people will use airtights, that's supposed to be the best. I would just recommend staying away from cardboard book folders for coins of high value, especially if they're Unc. Look at Whitman Classic, Dansco, or similar book holders.

quote:
- Do you use ebay to acquire your coins? I know that's a wide open question (I've used ebay many times before for other things), but it looks to be filled with "slabbed" coins way outside my price range. I live in a fairly small mid-west city that has just a few stores (can't wait to visit them).


I do. You just have to be very careful and know what you're doing. Internet sales are another reason why I like having TPGs. High res pictures are a must, and having it in a TPG holder gives me an extra warm fuzzy. A common adage is "buy the coin, not the slab". With high dollar coins I buy both. It must be certified (and) I have to agree with the grade and like the eye appeal.

quote:
- What are some suggestions you have for sizing up a dealer? What should I expect for coin markup - 10-15%?


Find a dealer you trust and one that is willing to spend time with you. Just visit different shops and get to know them. If you get a shady feeling from them, go someplace else. I have a main dealer that I swear by. Of all the price guides I would say Gray Sheet has been the most accurate. Prices should generally, but not always, fall very close to Gray Sheet ask prices. It's not the Holy Grail but IMO it's the best out there. If you don't subscribe, when you visit a shop ask to see theirs. If they're consistently quoting well over gray sheet, go someplace else.

Things to lookout for: Overpricing, overgrading, not disclosing problems with coins, etc.


Valued Member
United States
55 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2008  06:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ILoveSilverCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
i use 2 by 2 coin holders and yes where I live expect a 10-15% markup for some coins
I went to buy a Presidential dollar roll and was charged $37.95 which I thought was ridicoulous
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tights24's Avatar
United States
2254 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2008  07:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tights24 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Welcome to the forum catbert. Seems like you've received a ton of good info already. Buy some books, hang around here, and you will be up to speed in no time at all. We have a Books and Supplies section here where you will find a lot of answers also.



quote:
went to buy a Presidential dollar roll and was charged $37.95 which I thought was ridicoulous



Ilovesilvercoins, if this is what your local dealer is charging, he wouldn't be my dealer for long. Especially since I can get them at face value from a bank and be no different than what they are offering.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2008  08:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
WELCOME.
Lots of long dragged out responses but usually good ones. I'm old and get bored reading long stories I guess.
Yes the world has gone to slabbed coins for safety. China is now counterfeiting coins and slabs. So just how safe is a slabbed coin?
2x2's are what most use and can be purchased by the 100's cheap.
I use Albums and 2x2's. There are also 1-1/2 x 1-1/2 inch sizes that many dealers now use.
Coin prices can be found on many sites such as PCGS web site, Coin World, etc. ebay is a decent place for prices but not for purchases.
Ebay-just taking a chance. Note coin prices are like used car prices. They are what you are willing to pay.
Coin dealers-used car dealers. Same thing. Just remember they have to make a living off your purchases.
Look up coin shows. Just go to Google, type in coin shows and your state. Can't beat coin shows for good prices, nice people, lots to look at, good ideas of what to and what not to buy, coin books and other stuff for coins, no postage and handling, etc for a coin. Usually no taxes but that is pending where.
Member
amac44's Avatar
United States
3242 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2008  10:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add amac44 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Welcome !!
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cladking's Avatar
United States
2270 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2008  5:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cladking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I wouldn't worry about slabbing.

Except you should be aware that a lot of the raw coins you see have problems or are not authentic. You need to exercise great care if you buy raw and this goes many times over for very expensive coins. If you don't like the holders then bust them out and anticipate the expense of reholdering when you sell.

Markups are typically much higher than is apparent. It's very easy in the hobby to buy at much less than retail and very difficult to sell at near retail. Look in the classified buy section of the coin papers to see the base price of coins. Obviously many sell for much more. Dealers want to buy as much as possible at about 80% of these prices and that means some things will be marked up a great deal.

Go slow at first. You'll make mistakes but you want to keep them small and contained. Sell some coins once in a while so you get a good feel for what they're really worth. Don't get deep in the hobby and then learn you've been paying far more than necessary.
Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
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