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Replies: 17 / Views: 3,556 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3843 Posts |
It seems that most of the enthusiasm in numismatics currently is in modern coins currently. U.S. mint offerings selling out within an hour and dealers offering to double people's money if they purchase and then sell them their their allotment of sets. Personally I've noticed quite a few new members joining the forums to discuss the wide variety of products that the U.S. mint is currently producing and the Canadian NCLT forum has been one of the most active on the site with numerous new coins being discussed. As a Classic (pre-1964) collector, I don't see the same enthusiasm in the market for older coins, nobody is swamping coin shows with straw buyers looking for 19th century coins. What are your observations? Is the modern coin market riding a wave of momentum adding new collectors or is it more flippers looking for short term monetary gain than long term collectors building sets. 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1187 Posts |
I avoid 19th century because it's too expensive to get high condition stuff.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3486 Posts |
At the risk of speaking out of line, new collectors have bought into the, how to phrase it, "sales' pitch" that top condition is the only condition worth collecting. And Mints for many countries are all-to-eager to offer coins which are manufactured specifically to sell to these collectors. Dealers, in turn, cash in on the secondary market for as long as the 'flavor du jour' is in favor. Fast forward a few years: that limited mintage of 5000 coins with reverse proofs and lady bugs or whatever still exist. But the few surviving high condition coins of the 19th century are still hard to find.
There is a truism in coins as well as any commodity: you cannot market an item unless you have enough examples to market. A temporary corner on the market for 2015 'Whatevers' is possible. But a corner on the market for Very Fine 18? any denomination cannot exist. These examples need be bought one by one and then at market price. AND when available [not often.]
'Condition rarity' is a term best learned early in one's collecting years, and carefully distinguished from 'Temporary Market Fever."
So Joe2007, do not confuse 'enthusiasm' with 'hype.' Hype will fade but true, educated collectors will remain...quietly...grabbing the occasional "you-don't-see-this-everyday" coin.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2270 Posts |
It's been apparent for several weeks now that the modern markets are starting to wake up for the first time. BU rolls and sets going back to 1965 have been in demand and prices are firming at higher levels. The supply of these coins is far lesser than anyone imagines so if the demand growth continues there could be fireworks. "Common" BU Ike rolls are trading as high as $40 and better dates are going much more.
Classics will do fine in the long run but right now there are more coming into shops than dealers can afford to buy and markets are thin. Dealers are strapped for cash because of falling metals prices and don't have supplies of moderns like mint sets. This "junk" is the first thing they liquidate when the markewts are tight so we have no supply and fast growing demand.
It might get interesting.
I intend to sell into this demand but I don't have very much of the average coins and mostly just have Gems stashed safely away in safety deposit boxes.
I guess we'll all see what happens.
Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2270 Posts |
Quote: At the risk of speaking out of line, new collectors have bought into the, how to phrase it, "sales' pitch" that top condition is the only condition worth collecting. And Mints for many countries are all-to-eager to offer coins which Frankly, I've never been a big fan of investing in high grades or investing in any coin. Indeed, I'm not that big a fan of high grades and usually sell into demand. Don't get me wrong, I like quality and will pay extra for it but I don't like paying large premiums that I migh never recoup because high grades might go out of style. I do like nice choice gemmy clads because in better than typical condition they can be attractive and most typical clad looks like junk. There's nothing wrong with collecting high grades but buyers should be familiar with an issue before paying large premiums. It's probably not wise to pay huge premiums for slightly better coins when the bulk of the mintage is almost indistinguishable fromn the ones with a premium. To each his own.
Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
Edited by cladking 08/02/2015 5:32 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
One of the reasons for the popularity of modern coins is that they are more strongly marketed. The mints are in the business of making new product for their stakeholders, and that is why glossy brochures for new product and advertising has to be supported by them.
When the advertising campaign moves on whatever is currently produced, it is often found (but not always) that product that was recently produced can drop in aftermarket value.
You have to be a very astute buyer of current modern product to be able to identify what is likely to retain all of it's value in the aftermarket. For this reason, it may be well worth looking at the aftermarket to begin with.
Traditional classic coins do not receive as intense marketing activity.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2589 Posts |
High end classic US coins are bringing higher and higher prices every day. I don't know of any modern US coin that's brought more than $100,000 at auction.
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Valued Member
United States
77 Posts |
I agree with most of the previous posts here. I personally like classic coins more than modern, but I think some people are into modern coins for a get rich quick and flip them, and others think that because they see classic coins bringing high premiums that there PF70 modern coin will be worth big bucks 10 years from now.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
757 Posts |
I personally started collecting Kennedy halves just for the simple fact I knew I could afford to complete the set. Typically when people start a collection they want to complete it. Even trying to complete the Lincoln Cent set there are a few dates that could seriously strain some peoples wallets. Knowing they will never be able to complete the set why bother starting it? If you go the modern route you have the chance of completing the set at almost face value.
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Moderator
 United States
187702 Posts |
Quote: ...nobody is swamping coin shows with straw buyers looking for 19th century coins. Because there is really no comparison here. Buying something at a coin show is not the same as getting something from the mint when it is released.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2270 Posts |
Quote:I personally started collecting Kennedy halves just for the simple fact I knew I could afford to complete the set. Typically when people start a collection they want to complete it. Even trying to complete the Lincoln Cent set there are a few dates that could seriously strain some peoples wallets. Knowing they will never be able to complete the set why bother starting it? If you go the modern route you have the chance of completing the set at almost face value. Yes, and there are other reasons as well. Modern series can be collected on any budget at all and can be as challenging as desired. You can send away for a complete set of memorial cents for as little as about $25 or can can put together a nice set of choice coins for less than $100. Indeed, if you want a gemmy set it will be tough and take years to assemble but a couple hundred dollars will be enough money probably. You can buy coins graded MS-65 and these can be put together quickly though will be more expensive and since these are "mistakes" there will be some lessere coins in them. It's even still possible to put together Gem sets from rolls and mint sets but it might be cheaper to buy slabbed coins now days. There are numerous ways to collect moderns from bank rolls to slabs and a series to fit every budget. If you really want a challenge then you can try something like a PL set since some moderns are rare PL. Many collectors on smaller budgets just wouldn't enjoy the kind of bust half collection they can afford. Most of the coins will be very low grade, culls, and problem coins. But a small budget can put together important collections of moderns. It's funny really that we still callthem moderns. When I started collecting in 1957 a 1950 nickel was almost an ancient and Buffalo nickels while heavily worn still made up a large percentage of circulating nickels. They were only 19 years old. Today a 1960 nickel or 1976 quarter are oercieved as "modern". The quarter is already 40 years old since it was released in the summer of '75 and in 1957 there were few coins in circulation this old. The oldest normally found freely circulating and not a cull was an '09 cent; a mere 48 years old. Clad has been around 50 years. Perspective is everything and perspectives are changing as more younger collectors are coming on board.
Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2589 Posts |
There are a few oddball modern rarities that have increased significantly in value recently, the 2000 State Quarter/SAC Mule has pushed well past $50,000 in the most recent auctions, also the 2000 Cheerios dollar has been steadily increasing in value in higher grades, there are some date/mm combos of ikes that trade near $10,000 but they are few and far between.
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2869 Posts |
I don't think there is nearly as much interest in modern coins here in the UK, comparatively speaking. Possibly because there is such a long history of coinage (some 2000 odd years) to get your interest and a lot of them are relatively affordable.
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Pillar of the Community
1325 Posts |
I get all my coins at face-value except for the ASE I bought, so why do I care what grade my Morgan's and Peace's are in when I only paid $1 for them? But I never was really into the limited edition scam that was baseball cards either... and we all know that market died off over a decade ago. The only thing keeping the scam of limited coins alive is rare metals being used to make them. If anyone that collects is here, would you want a limited coin minted made out of say aluminum? Of course the price wouldn't be as high as gold, silver or platinum, but would you really want to collect a limited coin of aluminum at aluminum's cost and value?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1118 Posts |
Quote: If anyone that collects is here, would you want a limited coin minted made out of say aluminum? Of course the price wouldn't be as high as gold, silver or platinum, but would you really want to collect a limited coin of aluminum at aluminum's cost and value? All coins are limited. I have several Vichy France coins made out of aluminum due to war rations and several good for tokens made out of aluminium for local establishments. I have these coins because they tell a story. That is why I collect. Modern coins do not tell a story. I mean yes, the 20 for 20 coins tell stories (The 25 for 25 spin off says "Look, our flag is 50 years old) but they were meant to be collected. They are not utilitarian, they are simple not coin. Moderns feel so forced. So yes, I would buy (and have) aluminum coins BECAUSE they are not modern. Now as for an the moderns are cheaper then classics is just false. With the whole I "need an MS-70 not an MS-69 for my PCGS ASE registry" is driving up the prices of something worth it's silver value. You could put together a nice set of 2 cent pieces alot cheaper.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2270 Posts |
Quote: I don't think there is nearly as much interest in modern coins here in the UK, comparatively speaking. Possibly because there is such a long history of coinage (some 2000 odd years) to get your interest and a lot of them are relatively affordable. I'm always amazed in how little interest there is in British moderns. Luckily I got into the cu/ ni predecimal coins before their prices soared but these are far more common that the decimals and the decimals are far cheaper. It appears in the US that some of the decimals are as scarce in Unc as the 1920's era debased silver coinage and it goes for extremely high prices.
Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
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Replies: 17 / Views: 3,556 |