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1886 VAM 20

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 Posted 08/04/2015  12:14 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add kdrcoinzz to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I cant tell, its difficult to see from photos if there is a raised line under the 1 but I don't know if LDS doesn't have it.



1886-VAM-20

1886-VAM-20

1886-VAM-20

1886-VAM-20
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 08/04/2015  1:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's toning pullaway around the digits. The process of a strike is not homogenous in terms of pressure on the planchet, but varies according to what type of field/device the metal is flowing thru. At the periphery, the pressure around the outside of the letters/numbers is so different that the metal actually accquires a different level of hardness, making it more resistant to the normal patina process which every silver coin undergoes.

So what you see are areas which didn't age as the rest of the surface did. This is fairly common with Morgan dollars, although more characteristic of early 1880's San Francisco issues than others. Given the overall quality of those latter, I have always believed this toning pullaway to be characteristic of pretty good Mint work so I expect to see them strongly-struck.

Yours, which certainly appears Mint State to me, is not at all well-struck. The cotton bolls and hair above the ear and forehead are quite weak, in fact. This seems anomalous in view of what I just said.

Or is it?

Have a look at the periphery above PLURIBUS UNUM. The fuzziness and apparent roughness you see there is a good sign of a very old die. Other subtle things hint to me that the die has had a very long life, although I don't want to quantify them because individually they could mean other things. If you study enough thousand of these, they start speaking to you on a more subconscious level.

So I see a kind of impressive coin here. It was struck by a *really* old die, yet they were still coaxing strikes of such quality as to demonstrate pullaway toning. Fascinating.
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 Posted 08/04/2015  3:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kdrcoinzz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I forgot to mention the coin is holdered, and listed as buy it now for 136. And it's ngc graded ms63. So your 100% sure this isn't a vam20? Lol I saw the price and almost took a gamble and just bought it without doing any research as a VAM 20 runs much higher than 136 in ms63
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United States
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 Posted 08/04/2015  6:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kdrcoinzz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

here is the reverse. Did you notice the doubling on UNUM and stars on obverse? its pretty strong. I cant find any VAM attribution though.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 08/04/2015  11:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
VAM-20 is characterized by the plainly recut 1, a line below it which will be well raised and obvious. You'd have to be the judge of that. The things - near as I can tell from these images - you're describing as doubling were what I was specifically addressing in my previous post.
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 Posted 08/06/2015  3:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cascade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dave, bravo on that first post, that's some impressive mental homework as usual


I agree, this coin is very interesting in that regard
Edited by Cascade
08/06/2015 3:53 pm
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 Posted 08/06/2015  9:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chute72 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ditto. Dave, your summarization of pullaway is sheer poetry.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 08/06/2015  11:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you, guys, your kind words are much appreciated.

When you actually sit back and really noodle what happens moment by moment to a planchet during the strike - if you're numisnerd enough - you realize a planchet has a very busy moment in its' life. The only way to fill all those devices concentrated in the center, when the planchet starts evenly spread, is for all sorts of metal to move in all sorts of directions. Some will flow in, some out, some just stay in place and displace into a letter. I'd be surprised if much of what ends up as the fields of a Morgan - molecule by molecule - is anywhere near the place where it started on the planchet. Pretty complex dance when you think about it.
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