| Author |
 Replies: 17 / Views: 2,096 |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
549 Posts |
My kids and I started collecting wheat pennies about a month ago and we decided to venture into Indian Head cents now. I found somebody who sold me 100 of them for $74 shipped. Supposedly they were to be 50 in circulated condition and 50 cull. I'm far from an expert, but I'd venture to say that only about 5 of them were really culls. Two had some cuts in them and 3 or 4 are really ugly and worn. None of the 100 were so worn that I had to strain my eyes or use a magnifying glass to read the date. At least half of the 100 coins had full or partial liberty in the crown. The oldest coin was dated 1880 and there were only 4 years missing between 1880 and 1909, so we got a pretty good start on filling our book from this lot. I think I got a good deal, but I'm too new to coin collecting to know for sure. I have some questions on some of the coins from this lot. We're just getting started, so obviously none of these coins will be attractive to the avid collectors on this board, but for now it's what my kids and I are working with. The photos aren't great, so I'll try to explain... (1) This coin actually looks a lot more green all over than it does in the photograph. It actually looks nice in person and kind of different than most coins because it is completely green toned. My question is about the deep green areas. Is that just normal, but thick, patina, or is it corrosion which will get worse as time goes on?  (2) This photo does the coin no justice. This coin is just beautiful to look at in person. The colors are vibrant. The problem is that the coin is obviously very worn. Among the 100 pennies in the lot was another 1898 coin which is ugly/dull brown, but has full liberty (albeit somewhat worn). Am I better off keeping the pretty coin in the book or the one with a little better detail?  (3) How is it that the lettering on this coin seems so crisp, yet the indian's face is completely worn off? Is that a normal wear pattern?  (4) This coin looks like somebody tried to clean it and did a bad job, but the coin itself seems to be in pretty good condition. Am I better off just leaving it as is, or should I attempt to clean it up the rest of the way since it's already been devalued by cleaning?  (5) This coin looks to be in very good condition, but the patina seems very think in some areas and non-existent in others. Does that suggest that the coin has been cleaned or is it normal for the green to only develop in the crevices?  Edited by mahgobbi
01/08/2008 2:35 pm
|
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
The first coin has degritis ,,it is definitely a corroded coin ,,do not mix it in with the rest that do not have the green death it is contagious,, the second coin has been polished at least partially . the third coin is natural and has what appears to be normal wear ,,the Indian cents had a very high relief and high rims ,, the letters are protected to some degree by the rims while the bust is not . the fourth coin has corrosion pitting on the bust, cleaning will not help . the fifth coin has degritis only to a lesser degree than the first ,, its a nice looking coin otherwise ,, a couple of weeks in extra extra virgin olive oil may help . some opinions vary on using olive oil so expect a varied response on that suggestion . Metalman |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
5318 Posts |
It looks like you found a fun diversion there! First off--I would not clean any of these coins. The ones you've pictured aren't rare, but it's a good principle to follow.  I won't comment if they look cleaned or not, because pics online are a poor determinant of that. Within your date range, there are some possible rarities in terms of die varieties. If you're so inclined, you might like to post pics of your 1887, 1888, 1890, 1894, and 1897. If anything's there, I might be able to help you spot it. |
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
549 Posts |
Thanks metalman!
Kurt - do you only need the obverse on those years? I'll check and see what I have.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1083 Posts |
You will probably get lots of info from the experienced collectors on this site. The green on your copper Indians is corrosion. It is not a good thing and is hard to remedy. If the green verdigris is removed, than the coins surface may be pitted as corrosion causes a loss of metal. The only thing I would suggest doing is to get some pure acetone from a hardware store and soak the coins. Search on acetone on the site and you will get a wealth of info on how to use acetone safely (it has toxic fumes and is highly flammable). It will only remove contaminants that are organic and of course it won't fix corrosion, but it may improve a few coins and won't harm any others. Any further cleaning will just remove any value that the coins have remaining and I would highly advise not to try anything, but acetone. While many of these Indians may have decent features and minimal wear, the 50 that were described as culls may be because of damage from improper cleaning or an attempt to remove environmental damage. All of the coins you pictured in your post appear to me to have been improperly cleaned. Nevertheless, $75 is not a huge sum and you got some enjoyment and a start on completing the later dates. Hang around here a while and you will learn how to better evaluate coins and you can start to upgrade your set. Best of luck!
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
549 Posts |
Yes, I went back and looked at the coins and a lot of them have the green spots and/or were clearly cleaned at some point. I guess that's how they got classified as culls and I was too much of a beginner to realize it. I just saw full liberty on a lot of them and figured they were decent coins.
Kurt - I only have 7 coins from the dates you mentioned and they are all ugly, but I'll photograph them anyway...
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
549 Posts |
Kurt - Here are the pics for the years you asked about, but they are probably not worth much even if they have the variety, because they are among some of the worst coins in the whole lot.   |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
5318 Posts |
Hi, yes...it's mostly the front of those coins that have the interesting features. I'll be happy to take a look. And, for some examples of IHC varieties, take a look at my recent posts. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
2602 Posts |
I think you got a good deal at 100 IHC for $74. Culls are selling for 50-75 cents each on ebay all the time, so even culls are starting to get pricy. Most 100 or more IHC lots are routinely selling for $1 each and have a mixture of culls, G, VG and occasionally a few better grades. For the second coin, I'd take the ugly dark brown with full liberty over a corroded/cleaned coin. Personally, a small amount of green doesn't detract for me if other features are nice, like full liberty, nice detail in feathers, etc. This is only my opinion. All the extras can be dumped back on ebay and you probably will be close to $1 each for them as an "average circulated mixture" |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
549 Posts |
mycrob - eBaying the bulk of these was my original intention. That's what I've been doing with the wheats. So far I'm at a little better than a breakeven with everything I've purchased (I had one purchase of 1100 coins which ended up containing 92 1909 pennies...but that was partially offset by two purchases which were 90% crap and re-sold for less than I paid). So as of right now, our entire collection has been "free" after re-selling the ones we don't want. I checked the ebay prices on indian heads prior to making this purchase and decided that I could probably keep one coin from each year and resell the rest of them for close to what I paid for the entire thing. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
549 Posts |
mycrob - Is the second one corroded? I thought that one was just worn (and I'll trust all of you experts that it was also cleaned). I didn't notice any corrosion on that one though. It's absolutely beautiful to look at in person.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
5318 Posts |
Yeah, those indians are pretty worn, but some of the varieties are still obvious at that grade. There is an 1897 variety with a 1 punched in the neck, and you'd be able to spot that right away. Others are quite a bit more detailed, such as both 1888/7 varieties. Still, your first 1888 has the date punched rather similar to the 1888/7 Snow-2. It can't hurt to check for the diagnostic.  See the image below (credit Fly-In club), which shows the point of a digit emerging from the necklace on the bust. Again, it's a total long-shot, but I always check for that. That variety would still be worth $$ in that grade. (btw--I have no idea why there's so much room under the photo)  Edited by KurtS
01/08/2008 3:48 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
2764 Posts |
Very useful info. Thanks KurtS
|
|
Valued Member
United States
185 Posts |
mahgobbi, That sounds like a fantastic purchase. Over the summer I found some IHC at a flee market - 5 in a bag for $5. I bought a bag or two and called it a day. They were in about the same shape as yours, nothing special, but everyone here thought I did well and they've kept my interest. One day I'll focus some serious energy into working on that set after I finish up some other things. |
|
Valued Member
United States
189 Posts |
I think you got a great deal,
its going to be fun going through
the Indians and building a collection
with your kids.
I had a great time doing the same thing 20 years ago with mine.
|
|
Valued Member
United States
439 Posts |
Sounds like you're doing pretty well, working up a collection and still breaking even and you get all the fun of sorting through it all and keeping the goodies. Great job.
|
| |
Replies: 17 / Views: 2,096 |
Posted 01/08/2008 2:57 pm
