Something To Look Out For? Updated!

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Author	Replies: 7 / Views: 1,027
USArmyParatrooper Pillar of the Community United States 1283 Posts	Posted 01/10/2008 01:50 am EDIT: After contacting the seller explaining the difference, he adjusted his BIN price. I've recently started shopping for a 1972 DDO Lincoln and I must say thank God for this forum. Although I am very far from being an expert numismatist, I certainly don't consider myself a novice. But while researching my potential 72DD I realized I could have easily been taken for a LOT of money... simply from lacking very basic knowledge. I'm not a variety collector, and knowledge in that realm ended up being crucial. All the published price lists simply state "1972/72" with posted prices. Pretty cut and dry, one would think. I posted an inquiry on coincommunity and a member gave me this link: http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/diesearch.php (I don't recall your screen name, but thank you!) There are 8 different Double-Die varieties, the "real" DDO is die #1. That's the variety that the price guides list. I've seen a few different examples of this on ebay. Take a look at this listing. http://cgi.ebay.com/DDO-1972-Lincol...20_W0QQitemZ 170132331752QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item170132331752&_trksid=p3285.c52.m20.l1116 $399! Everything checks out, right? It's graded by NGC. The label clearly states "1972 DDO 1C". And then there's some gibberish "VP-008" but that must be some inconsequential NGC code, right? Otherwise they would have spelled it out. Unfortunately wrong! So I went to NGC's website and found this: http://www.ngccoin.com/VPSubCategory.aspx?subid=21 It was apparent to me, 8 different dies and a "VP Code" 2 - 8, with the highly sought DIE 1 variety having no designation. So I looked up the "Fivaz-Stanton" code FS-033.58 beside it.. and yep. It's DIE #8. So here's me. Until a few days ago I had no idea there were eight known die varieties of the 1972 DDO, that the major certifiers all recognize and label them, and that the labeling would NOT be obvious to the unknowing observer. Heck, I still don't even know who/what Fivaz-Stanton is. Just that they/it apparently set coding for specific die varieties. There are sellers asking DIE 1 prices for much cheaper varieties, and I can see how it's easy for someone to get taken. In the example I provided the seller has 99.9% feedback with over 2000 transactions. It's a reminder that some small bit you don't know can have major consequences. Edited by USArmyParatrooper 01/11/2008 11:15 am Report this Post to the Staff

GO Moderator United States 6563 Posts	Posted 01/10/2008 01:54 am "Buy the coin...Not the Slab" buying it like that is just about the same as buying it with no picture at all and taking the sellers word for it. I can't even see enough detail to make a call. glad that you were able to do some homework and save yourself a world of hurt. Oh and this guy might have a lot of feedback....but he ain't a coin seller/dealer by a long shot. Edited by GO 01/10/2008 01:56 am Report this Post to the Staff
just carl Bedrock of the Community United States 20753 Posts	Posted 01/10/2008 10:56 am USArmyParatrooper: I've said this many times. Not sure if anyone listens though. I know many people that sell on ebay. My son included. The feedback stuff is bogus. Most people tell me they have friends, nieghbors, relatives send in that stuff. I won't do it for them but have been asked many times. My son opened an ebay and paypal account for me just so I could do that. I never have. As to the 72 Double Die. Sure wish you and many others had the advantage of numerous coin shows. Sure a web site like https://www.coppercoins.com is great. I use it a lot and have both his books on Lincolns. HOWEVER, there is nothing like a coin show where you can examine, ask, check, use a magnifier on every coin. I've seen those 72 Double Dies at coin shows in various stages and some where so minor it required an electron microscope to detect any doulbing. Report this Post to the Staff
biokemist6 Bedrock of the Community United States 12437 Posts	Posted 01/10/2008 1:02 pm quote: Heck, I still don't even know who/what Fivaz-Stanton is. Just that they/it apparently set coding for specific die varieties. Bill Favaz and JT Stanton are the two authors of The Cherrypicker's Guide. They created a cataloging system for the die varieties featured in the two books. That ebay "dealer" is clueless. His ebay store looks like some schlocky resale shop with action figures, diecast vehicles, NASCAR stuff, ornaments, stamps, and few coins thrown in I avoid sellers with stuff like that like they have the plague. They may be decent to deal with, but I always find their coin knowledge to be severly lacking when asked questions about coins. A coin expert, he is not... Edited by biokemist6 01/10/2008 1:13 pm Report this Post to the Staff
USArmyParatrooper Pillar of the Community United States 1283 Posts	Posted 01/11/2008 11:15 am WOW! I asked the seller, "why so much for a DIE #8?" He then asked what price would be more in line. So I explained to him the die varieties and provided him the links explaining it. I check my messages and here is his reply: "Thank You for your time, it was very helpfull. Ron" And he changed the BIN price to $25. It seems like HE didn't even know the difference, but at least he adjusted the price accordingly. I'm not sure what he paid for it but he didn't even blink an eye about the price difference. Report this Post to the Staff
coppercoins Pillar of the Community United States 7629 Posts	Posted 01/11/2008 10:41 pm Bottom line is this.... Learn what you're doing before jumping out there and sticking your head on the block. Go to the following thread you posted in the variety forum - I've done some detailed answering in there that I don't really want to repeat here. Anyone could learn from this thread.. https://goccf.com/t/23741 Report this Post to the Staff
USArmyParatrooper Pillar of the Community United States 1283 Posts	Posted 01/11/2008 10:59 pm coppercoins, Wow, I'm very impressed with your knowledge, and thank you for sharing. Are you the author of the Cherry Picker's Guide? I'm actually considering buying a copy. BTW, I noticed the Bronze Star and others. Thank you for your service! Report this Post to the Staff
Conder101 Bedrock of the Community United States 17884 Posts	Posted 01/14/2008 1:37 pm No, Coppercoins is the author of Looking Through Lincoln Cents, an excellent book on the varieties found on Lincoln cents. He's also the owner of the https://www.coppercoins.com website that you referenced in your first post. Your experience with the 72 DDO is the reason those of use that have been around for a long time always advise that you need to know what you are buying and not just depend on whatever is printed on some slab. You need to be able to identify what a coin is and preferably be able to grade it on your own before you buy it. Some people say "what? Do we expect people to spend years learning about coins before they start buying anything?" The answer is no, but you should not spend beyond your knowledge level. If you do you're asking for trouble. The better slabbing companies help, but there are a lot of misattributed coins even in the top tier companies slabs, and if you can't recognize them for yourself you'll wind up spending money on "rare" coins that aren't rare. Report this Post to the Staff
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