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1995-Ddo ?

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MS1026's Avatar
United States
45 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2008  02:19 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add MS1026 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I am trying real hard people ( so bear with me ) to understand what to look for. I have read a TON.. I know to look for breaks in the stamping of suspected double dies and look for flattening of original letters to rule out Machine Doubling. But what do we make of the area by the 5 as well as the sides of the 9's. Can anyone explain why or why not this is a Double Die?! Thank you!
1995-Ddo-??
Edited by MS1026
01/12/2008 02:31 am
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j_h_s's Avatar
United States
1934 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2008  05:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add j_h_s to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I dont know the true benchmark of Double-Die; however, I look for how much of any letter or digit is doubled...if the entirety of it is doubled, that usually means the die struck twice rather than the ' Machine Doubling' result from die wear and tear. If you look at pictures of the 1955 double-die and poor man's double cents, you can see the difference I'm suggesting between the true double-die and the poor man's double. One of the experts here can explain in numismatic terms better than I've described this.
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amac44's Avatar
United States
3242 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2008  09:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add amac44 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice coin It looks like you found your 1st DDO!
Pillar of the Community
United States
2600 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2008  09:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jim1953 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1026, you will learn that the most misidentified doubling here on the forum and most everywhere else is Machine Doubling. Truth of the matter is that Machine Doubling, especially in certain dates or period are loaded with them. Call it die hop, or as I like to call it, die chatter, it comes when there is movement between the die and coin at the time of strike. The die itself is perfectly normal and has no doubling on it, the doubling is cause by the mechanical process, not the die proper.

That said, spotting it really becomes quite easy when you learn the traits to look for. The best is the shelf effect as I have heard it described. The doubling is flat and much shallower that the devise that is doubled. quite often is mirrors the devise perfectly. Die doubling often shows a phase shift, say to the Northeast, for example. I once heard someone trying to describe it and they said that it looked like the devise had slide off of it's base. I thought this very descriptive. Picture slicing off a devise with a razor blade and moving it ever so slightly in one direction or another. You could not cut the devise off cleanly and would leave a thin slice of the devise in it's original position, this in my minds eye is what Machine Doubling looks like.

Coppercoins has an excellent website with much of this information available. I would suggest buying his book, "Looking Through Lincoln Cents", it has a complete description of the different types of doubled dies that have value and then doubles that people confuse with them that are worthless. The pics are invaluable.

Jim
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coppercoins's Avatar
United States
7629 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2008  11:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppercoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I still don't see anything on that coin that would represent a doubled die. I guess closer examination would be necessary.
Valued Member
United States
140 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2008  1:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MountainXBGL to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am by no exaggeration of the word an expert at any of this, but that looks like Machine Doubling to me. The "sliding" aspect is the best way for me to grasp what I am looking at when trying to discern doubling. If you look at your example, if you can imagine the devices(numbers) to be made of mud(don't laugh-this works for me!)and you just slid them in any given direction, would the result look like what you see on a coin? If so, then its Machine Doubling.

Now with the same analogy, if you had a press that pushed out mud stamps of numbers, if you pressed out a number then moved ever so slightly and then pressed the same number again, imagine the visual and you will see a true double die.

LOL-Dont laugh!
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foundinrolls's Avatar
United States
3507 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2008  5:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add foundinrolls to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't see a doubled die on this coin at all. I see minor Machine Doubling.

This doubling is flat and shelflike. I see no "Notches" or grooves that would indicate any die doubling at all.
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Homer1's Avatar
138 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2008  7:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Homer1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is not a DD but rather a coin struck semi deeply from the die onto the blanket causing a slight edge view of the #5 on coin giving it sort of a 3D look. Nice clear photo.
Edited by Homer1
01/12/2008 7:08 pm
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j_h_s's Avatar
United States
1934 Posts
 Posted 01/13/2008  05:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add j_h_s to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was hoping to steer you to DD images on the internet; however, after typing "double die" in my browser and clicking on "images," more (than not) of the images touted to be DD are MD.

Aaargh.

Jim
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ziggy9's Avatar
United States
499 Posts
 Posted 01/13/2008  07:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ziggy9 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's a great site for understanding the different kinds of doubling and identifying wich ones are worth anything

http://koinpro.tripod.com/Articles/...Doubling.htm

Richard
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coppercoins's Avatar
United States
7629 Posts
 Posted 01/13/2008  11:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppercoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
j_h_s : Try using "doubled die" instead of "double die" - the latter of these terms is incorrect, and anyone who knows what they are doing is not going to save an image as such.
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thingee's Avatar
United States
2177 Posts
 Posted 01/13/2008  7:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thingee to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The differences between Machine Doubling and doubled dies can be very tricky and difficult. I still haven't grasped it but I'm getting better. And sometimes when I think I've really gotten the hang of it I get thrown off. But I haven't stopped trying to get the hang of it.
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dhbutler999's Avatar
United States
26 Posts
 Posted 01/14/2008  7:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dhbutler999 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The key element here is that the Mintmark shows doubling as well as the date. Since the mintmark is put on after the die is created, it can only be Machine Doubling. Sorry! Nice coin though.
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foundinrolls's Avatar
United States
3507 Posts
 Posted 01/15/2008  12:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add foundinrolls to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not so on a 1995 D cent. The Mintmark is part of the hub that creates the dies. It is not punched into the die individually.

The fact is that there is a 1995 D Doubled Die cent that has nice doubling on the D as well as the Date.

This one just isn't it. This one shows Machine Doubling.

Prior to 1990, you would have been more correct as mintmarks were punched into the dies by hand.

This coin however has none of the diagnostics that would indicate die doubling.

In this case, the mintmark being doubled has no bearing other than the fact that it lends more credence to the Machine Doubling diagnosis.
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j_h_s's Avatar
United States
1934 Posts
 Posted 01/15/2008  06:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add j_h_s to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Copper said, "j_h_s : Try using "doubled die" instead of "double die" - the latter of these terms is incorrect, and anyone who knows what they are doing is not going to save an image as such."

Thankee, sir...I'm no expert and if I always knew what I was doing I'd be rich !!
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coppercoins's Avatar
United States
7629 Posts
 Posted 01/15/2008  11:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppercoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Actually two of the known 1995D doubled die Lincolns that I know of DO show doubling on the mintmark as well as the date for reasons Bill explained above.
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