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Replies: 186 / Views: 36,491 |
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Valued Member
United States
411 Posts |
As this thread is getting long I am repeating some information so that it is readily available.Ken Rogoff, Thomas D. Cabot Professor of Public Policy and Professor of Economics at Harvard University, says the US should get rid of the $100 bill (and $50s and $20s) proposing, in his words, "a 'less-cash' society, not a cashless one, at least for the foreseeable future." Rogoff's begins by stating factoids as facts... Quote: There is little debate among law-enforcement agencies that paper currency, especially large notes such as the U.S. $100 bill, facilitates crime: racketeering, extortion, money laundering, drug and human trafficking, the corruption of public officials, not to mention terrorism. There are substitutes for cash—cryptocurrencies, uncut diamonds, gold coins, prepaid cards—but for many kinds of criminal transactions, cash is still king. It delivers absolute anonymity, portability, liquidity and near-universal acceptance. It is no accident that whenever there is a big-time drug bust, the authorities typically find wads of cash. While it is a familiar argument, I have never seen someone include the US$20 banknote into the fight. As I have suggested simply limiting the new color $100 banknote to a trillion dollars seems to be an idea that the US government is incapable of handling. But Sweden "a 'less-cash' society" which limits most of it's currency to the 200kr banknote might be in the near future. Elimination seems to be too politically unpalatable (other than the 10,000kr banknote in 1991). The 1000kr banknote was circulating at over 48 SEK billion in 2001, and is currently circulating at under 3 SEK billion in September 2016. So what will happen to the 39 SEK billion in 500kr banknotes by the end of next summer when they are all declared invalid? =========================== Banknotes and coins per capita at end of 2015 in USD-source Bank for International Settlements $113 South Africa $195 India $282 Brazil $458 Turkey $599 Mexico $800 Russia $872 Sweden (As of Sep 2016 closer to Mexico) <-------------------- Norway <-------------------- Iceland (could be > Korea today) $1,460 Korea $1,583 United Kingdom $1,641 Canada $1,708 Saudi Arabia <-------------------- Denmark $2,320 Australia $3,571 Euro area $4,441 United States $4,911 Singapore $6,550 Hong Kong SAR $6,739 Japan $9,213 Switzerland Norway and Denmark are not members of the Bank for International Settlement, so they don't have an official ranking. But I have shown where they would go if they were. As I said Norway may try and follow Sweden when they issue their new banknotes. In particular the decision to change the 1000NOK banknote last and on 3rd year of changeover, even though it has the lowest circulation of any banknote makes me think they will either do away with it, or only issue token quantities like Sweden. But Denmark just issued their new banknotes from 2009-2011. So if they were going to use that event to limit cash in circulation, they would have done it already.
Edited by PacoMartin 10/15/2016 11:35 am
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Pillar of the Community
 Sweden
1078 Posts |
It was actually proposed to have the changeover in three parts witht he 50 SEK note first. Having a 200-SEK note as the lowest note would be a nightmare, even for Sweden. People would react I think. I could imagine the night mare for South African savers who have to deal with only R200 notes (~140 SEK, USD 16.50) In other news, I spotted the first circulation B-prefix notes on Tradera today:  Also B-prefix 500 SEK notes are out there:   Since these are the sellers' images they will not be avalible forever. I'm not going to buy these but they confirm not only C-notes are out there for these denominations. They actually seem to be pretty common
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Valued Member
United States
411 Posts |
It does seem lik 200SEK is small for even the poorest European countries 200PLN~450SEK Polish Zloty 200RON~431SEK Romanian leu (rarely used 500RON banknote) 100BGN~496SEK Bulgarian Lev
Asia, Africa and Latin America have very small banknotes 100CNY~131SEK Chinese Yuan 100BRL~276SEK Brazilian Real 10,000XOF~148SEK West Africa CFA Franc 10,000XAF~148SEK Central Africa CFA Franc
Mexico is functioning with the 500 peso note as their primary note (500MXN~233SEK). Over 70% of the banknotes by value are the 500 peso notes/ There is a 1000 peso banknote, but circulation is less then one banknote per capita, and it is very difficult to spend outside of Mexico City.
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Pillar of the Community
Germany
992 Posts |
Quote: but they confirm not only C-notes are out there for these denominations. They actually seem to be pretty common In other words, all 6 denomiantions of the the new banknote series are available with the ''B''-prefix and 100kr and 500kr also with ''C''-prefix. Interesting.
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Valued Member
United States
411 Posts |
How about serial numbers? Seen any serial numbers over 1 million yet (i.e. any digit other than zero)? (first two digits are not part of the serial number, but are constrained to 1-50 and represent position on sheet).
Edited by PacoMartin 10/18/2016 2:38 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 Sweden
1078 Posts |
I've gone through such a large amount of new notes by now so most likely, yeah. I did find (and save) a 20 kr note with the nice serial number B141500000, which is over a million. The lowest I've seen is probably in the low 100,000's but don't remember for sure. Think I would've remembered seeing anything in the 10,000's.
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Pillar of the Community
 Sweden
1078 Posts |
More and more ATMs are officially dispensing the last new notes now and I think I saw a peek of a new 500 being given out at my local supermarket yesterday. I have yet to encoounter many myself but I haven't made much effort to get these lately. Still though most people seem to have and get pretty much only the old notes.
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Valued Member
United States
411 Posts |
Quote: Still though most people seem to have and get pretty much only the old notes. In the previous year the Riksbank handed out 96 million of the new notes (about half in the 20kr denomination, others in 50r, 200kr, 1000kr) and now they have 9 months to get rid of 130 million old 100kr and 500kr banknotes. I wouldn't expect too much change in only three weeks. ================= 500kr banknotes in circulation101.4 million end of 2006 110.0 million end of 2007 116.0 million end of 2008 118.9 million end of 2009 (peak circulation) 114.8 million end of 2010 113.3 million end of 2011 113.7 million end of 2012 116.2 million end of 2013 114.4 million end of 2014 99.6 million end of 2015 77.9 million end of September 2016 So the big question is will the Riksbank put 80-110 million new 500kr banknotes in circulation, or will they put 30-50 million in circulation. At what point will Swedish people say "enough is enough" and we are entitled to cash as an option.
Edited by PacoMartin 10/26/2016 7:05 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 Sweden
1078 Posts |
Quote: In the previous year the Riksbank handed out 96 million of the new notes (about half in the 20kr denomination, others in 50r, 200kr, 1000kr) I'm not surprised. I've seen plenty of 20's around, much more than any other denomination. Sadly, it's still not uncommon to get 2 20-kr notes and a 10-kr coin instead of a 50-kr note. There are still some places that don't have the 200-kr note ready but they're becoming fewer. Speaking of the 20-kr note, I still haven't seen any that have notable cuts or tears. Plenty notes I see in circulation have been roughly treated and folded in almost every way. One had a burnt corner but none have been badly torn or fixed with tape. An evident result of thicker notes, I'd say. Also - the new 500 SEK note is becoming more common now, although it's still not very common by any means. I saw what I assumed to be some tourinsts with one today and the other day I was standing behind a person withdrawing what looked like stacks of them from the ATM! All of which were new ones. So there is still demand for these notes afterall. I also had to spend a new 100 SEK note the other day, but the cashier didn't seem surprised of excited in any way. Lastly, I was surprised the other day when I went to an ATM that didn't dispense 100 SEK notes, only 200's and 500's! First of its kind. I haven't heard anything from the company about doing this. The ATM didn't say it had run out of the notes, it straight out said it didn't dispense that note.
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Valued Member
United States
411 Posts |
It looks like the Riksbank is being very aggressive about the new 500kr banknotes. Circulation reached 5.1 million new banknotes in only one month. In comparison it took the bank four months to get circulation of the new 200kr banknotes to pass 5 million. By next month the number of new banknotes should finally surpass the number of old banknotes.
New banknotes only (31 October 2016) Millions: Denom 48.9 : 20 kr 18.9 : 50 kr 6.1 : 100 kr 27.9 : 200 kr 5.1 : 500 kr 3.0 : 1,000 kr 109.8 : TOTAL
Old banknotes only (31 October 2016) Millions: Denom 47.5 : 100 kr 72.3 : 500 kr 119.8 : TOTAL
Edited by PacoMartin 11/05/2016 2:39 pm
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Valued Member
United States
411 Posts |
The Riksbank set the "Repo rate" at -.5% on February 17 2016. It had first reached negative numbers the year before. On 2 November 2016 they bank stated in a Press Release: Quote: The upturn in the Swedish economy is continuing, but the Riksbank assesses that it will take longer before inflation attains the target of 2 per cent. The upturn in inflation therefore needs continued strong support. The Executive Board assesses that the repo rate needs to be held at #8722;0.50 per cent for six months longer than was forecast in September. The probability that the rate will be cut further has increased. So there is a high probability that the repo rate will be even lower than -.5% when on 30 June 2017, it will no longer be possible to pay using the old 100 and 500-krona banknotes. The current stock (as of 31 October 2016) is 72.3 million of the old 500kr banknotes. In order to make it as difficult as possible to hoard value in cash, the Riksbank will have to replace a fraction of the old banknotes with new ones. At some point vastly reduced withdrawal limits on ATMS will have to be enforced. Although no one expects Sweden to adopt the Greek limit of 50 Euros a day maximum withdrawal amount (500SEK=50.57EUR). I wouldn't be surprised if 3000SEK becomes the new maximum withdrawal amount by next year.
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Valued Member
United States
411 Posts |
For the last 4 months the actual Swedish currency supply by value has not been reduced, as there is an equivalent number of new notes to replace the old ones.
It still remains to be seen when the Riksbank will slow down circulating new 500kr notes. I am still assuming they will not print more than are already in circulation.
500kr banknotes in circulation 101.4 million end of 2006 110.0 million end of 2007 116.0 million end of 2008 118.9 million end of 2009 (peak circulation) 114.8 million end of 2010 113.3 million end of 2011 113.7 million end of 2012 116.2 million end of 2013 114.4 million end of 2014 99.6 million end of 2015 75.9 million end of 2016*
* 56.8 million old and 19.1 million new Old 500kr banknotes will cease to be legal tender as of June 2017.
Edited by PacoMartin 01/17/2017 3:27 pm
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Valued Member
United States
411 Posts |
The Swedish central bank is collecting information on a digital currency, the e-krona. Public opinion polls were fairly negative, as most Swedes do not see the need for another type of electronic currency.
But electronic transactions are also distinguished by their ability to be reversed in the case of payment disputes and their anonymity. In many cases people want "dispute resolution" and traceability to their transactions. But a digital currency may resemble a cash transaction in that it is both permanent and anonymous.
A transaction without any dispute resolution or traceability may be fundamentally less expensive. The Swedish government may see it as a way to counter the arguments of the final people who are against abolishing of physical currency. I suspect that there will be some limit to these transactions, possibly with a way to do an online form submitted to the government containing names of parties, date, location and purpose of transaction if you exceed that amount. The limiting amount would probably be no higher than 100,000 SEK, but could be considerably lower.
IMHO a minor modification of SWISH that would permit the user to download up to 10,000SEK to a digital wallet, and allow them to transfer some portion of that amount to another person anonymously might be a reasonable compromise. There would still be records of the downloads, but no records as to where the money was spent.
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Pillar of the Community
 Sweden
1078 Posts |
Quote: The Swedish central bank is collecting information on a digital currency, the e-krona I am aware of this, but that's about it. I feel there's no need for such a thing when most currency is in digital form anyway. I would highly resist a second currency, as it seems like it will be, although tied to the "normal" Krona at par. I am not a Swish user, so I cannot explain how it works and what limits are. I suppose there are limits, but I simply have no idea. I am for people choosing their preferred payment methods, as long as it's safe. Again, I don't know how Swish works but I assume there's some sort of confirmation needed to carry out a fairly large transaction. I still deal with cash mostly, still. On the topic of new notes, I still haven't seen any B-prefix 100- and 500-kr notes, despite having gone though a smaller amount by now. But they do seem to appear here and there. About half of Bankmat AB's ATM:s have been upgraded to dispense the remaining new notes, not including my local cashpoint. The old notes seem to remain strong though, especially the 100-kr note from my observations. But since the 500 kr note is used less frequently, I don't know for sure. On my Sunday markets I see the last new notes somewhat often lately, but that's because the nearby ATM has been upgraded. I have seen 20 and 200 kr notes with sheet numbers over 1 million, but not above that. I don't think I've spotted any others.
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Pillar of the Community
Germany
992 Posts |
@X2an: Thanks for the update on the new notes
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Replies: 186 / Views: 36,491 |