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 Replies: 24 / Views: 3,043 |
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Valued Member
United States
237 Posts |
Found something.  Looks like a double die to me. (EDIT: But it's not) However, there are no VAMs for this... It's only on S OF. Edited by SecretGlitch
02/09/2008 10:56 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
527 Posts |
Do you have any pics of the whole coin front and reverse? It would be helpful for identification. I've been going over 1921 P's today myself I've had to read the descriptions very carefully. Read the captions on all the pictures, they like to throw in little details. I was happy to find a 1921 P VAM 27a wide Reed today, probably MS 60. I don't know which is more fun the hunt or the find. |
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Valued Member
United States
140 Posts |
Hey Secret, I believe others will say so as well, but that looks like Machine Doubling... |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7629 Posts |
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Valued Member
 United States
237 Posts |
Yeah, I didn't actually KNOW whether or not it is a double die. I was doubting myself because I didn't see a VAM for it. Edited by SecretGlitch
02/02/2008 11:14 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
527 Posts |
Without seeing better pictures, I'm not 100% sold on Machine Doubling. On all the Machine Doubling coins I have seen there is "smearing" in the denticles next to the effected area. I don't see that here, atleast not in this picture. I think this picture show this well.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3507 Posts |
The top of the O and F are giveaways that this is Machine Doubling. Both letters have the appearance of being narrower at the tops than they should be. A sure sign that metal was moved. Also, if it were a doubled die, the serifs of the S would have reasonable splits based upon the amount of spread of what appears to be doubled. Did I say that right:-) Edited by foundinrolls
02/02/2008 11:56 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
527 Posts |
I know my amature status is showing but, what?  I have no idea what you just said Foundinrolls.  "the serifs of the S would have reasonable splits based upon the amount of spread of what appears to be doubled."? |
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Valued Member
United States
237 Posts |
Here, I'll make a comparison to let everyone have fun concluding off of.  Higher def pic of a regular morgan S OF.  And the doubling under a different light.  So yeah, that should be enough for someone to conclude. And in my conclusion, I'm too tired to conclude. |
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Valued Member
United States
237 Posts |
"the serifs of the S would have reasonable splits based upon the amount of spread of what appears to be doubled."?
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He means that the top and bottom curls of the S would have more noticable doubling like the doubling in the middle of the S.
I think.
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Valued Member
United States
140 Posts |
NGiles...Look at foundinrolls avatar...You can see a better picture of the 1972DDO on coppercoins site. A serif is a portion of a character or device. A major key to a true double die is seeing two distinct points or a "split" between one device point and the doubled image...split serifs. The wider the seperation of the doubling, the more evident the split becomes. In all cases of Machine Doubling, you will not see a distinct seperation between the serifs. |
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Valued Member
United States
140 Posts |
Look at the picture in the Washington quarter thread in this forum and look at the bottom of the "R"....The doubling is very minute but you can still see the splits in the serifs at the bottom. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
527 Posts |
As I said earier, my amature status is showing. That can be emarassing at times. :-) Thanks for the great explaination.
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Valued Member
United States
237 Posts |
Old topic I know but big update: It is, in fact, a double die. On the front. On the back it's a tripled die. Aka a VAM-50. I showed it to a specialist and he looked at it under a special microscope. There is in fact tripling all across ED STATES OF, and there's doubling on the left and a few of the right stars. Now you may be thinking, why do the pictures make it look like it like Machine Doubling? The answer is simple: I scanned it in using a 5 year old scanner that is only meant for scanning documents. So it only will pick up the significant parts of the tripling on S OF. If I had one of those fancy microscope cameras, I'd show you pictures. But alas, I don't. So I have to say congratulations, NGiles, your amature status was actually correct. Here's VAMworld's VAM listing of it. http://www.vamworld.com/1921-P+VAM-50 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
527 Posts |
The light can play funny tricks on pictures. I can see the possibilty of both die doubling and Machine Doubling. In fact I have seen coins that have both and those get really tricky. That is why I suggested better pictures. It was nice to win out on this one, but nine times out of ten I would trust the judgement of the others. Some of them are the foremost authorites in their field, and I value their judgement highly. Great find, Morgans are my favorite coin. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3507 Posts |
Unfortunately, your conclusion isn't correct. Look at the shape of the inside of the O in the word OF. The shape is substantially different indicating different dies . So the pictures you are using as comparisons can not be the same coin. If I understand your post correctly, your pictures rule out the Doubled Die you are hoping it is.
Also, it is OK to name the specialists that look at the coins. We probably know them.
Edited by foundinrolls
02/10/2008 02:47 am
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Replies: 24 / Views: 3,043 |
Posted 02/02/2008 11:05 pm
