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Guide To Submitting Currency For Grading

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CelticKnot's Avatar
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 Posted 02/16/2016  11:43 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add CelticKnot to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I'm a couple years into collecting currency and I have a very modest collection going here. I'm at the point where I might like to submit a few notes for grading.

Would love to hear some advice from the experts here (poke, poke, Coinfrog, techwriter, hadjuk, Wheatback, amrys, et al, *ahem*)

What are the preferred graders and why?
What are approximate costs associated per note?
What's the turnaround time?
What's the break even point (or, when should you refrain from submitting)?
Once returned to your collection, how do you store and/or display?

Thanks in advance for the thoughts. These are just a few of the questions that come to mind and I hope this (potential) discussion helps budding currency collectors.
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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 Posted 02/17/2016  4:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
CK -

The answers to most of your question are the same: it depends.

To start, PCGS and PMG are the principal paper money TPGs, with CGA now a distant third since ebay will not allow their notes to be listed anymore. This does not mean CGA notes are bad - there can be great values here. I personally prefer PMG because I believe their paper quality definitions are stricter than PCGS (for example, PCGS will give a gem grade to a note without premium paper quality, while PMG will not). But this is just a personal preference.

The cost will vary according to how fast you want the note back and the market value of the note, among other factors. The cheapest fees often have a cap on market value (for their insurance on returns). For a table of submission costs, just visit the web sites of either company or Google something like "Cost of submitting paper money to PCGS". Typical fees are around $35 per note. Don't forget to factor in mailing costs. If you are an ANA member, you don't need to be a PMG club member to submit privately - a big benefit.

Turnaround time - same thing, the faster you want it back, the more you'll pay. Typical is around three weeks.

Difficult to say what a breakeven point would be. I usually don't submit notes that are worth less than $200, but that's just me. I certainly do buy a lot of TPG notes for less than that, however!

I store my TPG ntes in the Lighthouse deluxe binders, which have many options for large and small notes. These are 3-ring and cost about $50 apiece, with extra leaves easily available.

Hope that helps -

Frog
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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 Posted 02/17/2016  4:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As a further thought, many collectors believe that it is best to submit through your LCS, under the theory that good customers get preferential treatment, if you follow. This applies to coins as well, of course. After 25 years of submitting both ways, I believe there may be some truth to this, much as I hate to say it, but who knows.

Just remember that submitting anything to a TPG is something of a crapshoot, and you are just as likely to be smiling as frowning when you open your package.

Take it from me.



Edited by Coinfrog
02/17/2016 4:34 pm
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Connor's Avatar
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 Posted 02/17/2016  5:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Connor to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with PMG or PCGS. You can't go wrong with either of these. While I have not been submitting currency for long this is what I have experienced. You get what you pay for. I always choose to pay as little as I can in fees to PMG. In return, PMG takes 60-90 days to turn the notes around. I could get them back quicker but I would have more cash tied up in the notes. I am never in a true hurry so I don't mind the wait. Also, I try not to submit until I reach the "bulk" status and the price per note drops a little. I believe this may be 25...I'm not sure though.

I have sent in notes of all values. I like the security of the sealed holders. Several of my confederate and obsolete notes are on incredibly thin paper so I like knowing they are protected for many years to come.

As coin frog said....I have been disappointed as well as pleasantly surprised many times. You truly never 100% know when you send notes in what the final grade will be.

Good Luck.
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 Posted 02/17/2016  6:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well said.

It's different with coins than paper money. I would always put away or sell the kinda head-scratching highly-graded coins, and then crack the bummers and resubmit.

But that doesn't work so well with notes, I think. I may be cynical, but with the TPGs having the SNs on file, I'm kind of skeptical that a raw or re-grade submission would get a fresh appraisal.

Just my opinion.
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 Posted 02/17/2016  6:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CelticKnot to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the input, Coinfrog (you seem to be more of a Notefrog though) and Connor! I appreciate it. Gives me a lot to chew on. I've done some Googling and surfing on this but I like to get opinions and advice from folks in the know.

I think I will start with purchasing graded notes before submitting my own to get a feel for things. I've been meaning to get a North Africa $1 for my U.S. small $1 note collection so maybe I'll start there. I already have an ungraded Hawaii $1 note that's in crisp condition but not sure it's worth sending for grading.

I purchased a Vario binder and 3-page pockets for my inexpensive ungraded world notes (see photo below). I'm sure I could use a similar setup with 2-page pockets for graded notes.


Guide-To-Submitting-Currency-For-Grading
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 Posted 02/17/2016  7:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Herein lies the paradox: You cannot actually learn much of anything about a TPG note except its centering. You cannot for yourself get a sense of why the note was designated premium paper quality or not - and so you have something, and yet nothing in an educational sense.

It also complicates matters that most dealers will not let you handle a raw "uncirculated' note except under the most controlled circumstances, if even then. It's not like with coins held by the rim.

The world of paper money collecting is much more complex and less forgiving than collecting coins. There are few second chances after you buy a TPG note or submit one for grading.

Ultimately, it is best to learn grading skills. Centering is easy - determining unpressed paper quality and the faintest indication of even teller thumbing is much more diffcult.

It is all very complicated, but well worth exploring!
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 Posted 02/18/2016  5:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CelticKnot to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting. So because the note is already sealed in a TPG currency holder, you can't feel the note in your hands to see why it might have received a certain paper quality designation. Makes sense.

What besides paper quality and centering do they grade?

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 Posted 02/18/2016  6:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, of course, the primary component is "wear"! So, you have three variables - wear, paper quality and centering, essentially. There are other factors at work, such as eye appeal, but basically it's the big three.

Here's something of critical importance to remember when evaluating TPG holders: In UNCIRCULATED grades, the critical variables are paper quality and centering (two of the three). But in CIRCULATED grades, the critical variables are paper quality and wear - (again two of three, but a different combination).

Lesson: Centering generally DOES NOT play a part in TPG grading of circulated notes, but I can assure you it might well play a role when you decide to sell such a note.
Edited by Coinfrog
02/18/2016 6:47 pm
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 Posted 02/19/2016  12:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CelticKnot to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Well, of course, the primary component is "wear"!

[facepalm]

(Yes, I know there's no [faceplam] smiley but there should be. )

I'm embarrassed at myself for asking that. Of course overall condition/wear is paramount.

Thanks for the continued advice, Coinfrog.
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 Posted 02/19/2016  02:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GoldenChest to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I found this a very educational thread, thank you much guys.
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 Posted 02/19/2016  4:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
CK - we all knew what you meant.
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 Posted 02/20/2016  01:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CelticKnot to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@GoldenChest - glad you think so. I was hoping to make this educational for not just me.

And thanks, Coinfrog. If you were starting out fresh, say you gifted all your notes to some worthy charity or something, where would you start to rebuild your collection? What would be the first note or 5 you'd try to tackle?

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 Posted 02/20/2016  02:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CollectorKing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good thread
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 Posted 02/20/2016  11:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add techwriter to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Celtic Knot, apologies for this tardy reply, it's tax season around my household and it gets to be a nearly full-time endeavor helping kids with theirs and doing my own.
Submitting notes for grading: from what I've read in the thread you've received a really good advice and insights. As for me I evaluate the note:
1. do I just want to preserve the note(s) or
2. would grading increase its value in the future if my young'uns decide to sell them?

That's pretty much my criteria, except of course, do I really want to spend the grading fee $$? I do try to take full advantage of "deals" offered by the TPGs. I have several in both categories mentioned above.

Oh, thanks for the compliment, don't consider myself an expert just an avid collector and researcher, always willing to share what I've learned. You know, why re-invent the wheel?
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 Posted 02/20/2016  12:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Connor to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would like to add just a few things that I think about when it comes to TPG and paper currency from a "Fine-Very Fine Note Collector" since this is what most of my collection is. Just my opinion.

I have a set of North Africa notes (just like coinfrog's, but NOWHERE close to those grades!) that are with PMG right now...in fact they have been with PMG for over 2 months now but as I mentioned above I am trying to keep the cost down so I selected the economy tier which means SLOW. I purchased these notes raw and I really like the professional look PMG's holders give to the notes. In this case I don't think having these in PMG holders will increase the value a lot but in my opinion they sure will look good and to be honest I have no interest in selling these and making a profit on them anytime soon. Side note: I am thinking they will come back in the VF range but we will see soon.

I also have a few confederate notes with them as well. These notes are probably in the same F-VF condition. I choose to send these in for two reasons. 1. There were a lot of replica's of these made and while I am pretty sure all of mine are real I want to make sure my family would receive top dollar for these if something were to happen to me and if I try to sell them the buyer on the other end will know they are authentic as well. 2. I think there are a few deals to be had out there if you look hard enough. I have bought a few notes over the years that were raw and after I sent them to PMG I was able to flip them for a small profit (including the grading fee). This does take some experience and time. You have to pick the right note at the right deal and then be patient while they are sent off to PMG. This is time consuming for the amount of profit actually made but it is fun to me and it's strictly a hobby.

Lastly, if I had a collection full of notes like coinfrog's, Techwriter, and some other members here I would without a doubt have any and all of my notes graded that are in that type of condition. You just don't see notes in that condition everyday!

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