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Diffuse On Axis Lighting Rig: My Latest Iteration

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austrokiwi's Avatar
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 Posted 02/28/2016  08:12 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add austrokiwi to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
MY title of this thread may be confusing, and that may be because I have a confused understanding. I am referring to what is most often called Coaxial lighting, or alternately Axial lighting.

In 2013 I was taught at the summer seminar that axial lighting, the name they used, needed a beam-splitter and a spot light. The spotlight and beam-splitter was used to direct the light onto the coin so that the apparent source of the light was the lens. I tried that and hated it. I know others love, and even insist on using spot lights, but its not for me.

So I did a bit of thinking and research. I found that not every one used spot lights and some just used a large diffuse light source.

The reason I don't like spot lights is related to my processes when taking coin photographs. It is also probably related to my collecting focus. Although a large part of my collection consists of coins around 40mm in diameter, I also have coins and medals ranging from a few mm in diameter through to nearly 70mm in diameter. A single spot light,from my experience, needs readjusting when one changes coin size. {This is usually due to changing the magnification so to ensure that the coins image fills a large part of the Cameras sensor}

The spot light mount just added to the clutter of my work area ( as did Janscos). When I first looked at improving my axial lighting I contemplated adapting a Leica Visoflex. The plan was to replace the mirror in the visoflex with an Edmunds beam-splitter. The light source would be projected thorough the view finders pentaprism behind which a polarizing filter can be installed. A second polarizing filter could be set after the beam splitter to cancel out the transmitted light. I never tried constructing it as there were just far too many variables I needed to take into account( plus expense).

Here is an example of a Visoflex( I am not recommending any one buy it)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Leitz-Lei...AOSw1-RUZkGG

I then looked at how the problem is addressed in Machine vision. I looked at DOAL ( Diffuse ON AXIS Lighting) Units. For example(Again I am not recommending any one buy this item):

http://www.microscan.com/en-us/Prod...inators.aspx

I then developed my own DOAL unit using the following Edmunds products:

The beam splitter( the price is considerably higher than when I purchased mine):

http://www.edmundoptics.com/optics/...tters/46583/

Self adhesive black out material( camera flock):

http://www.edmundoptics.com/lab-pro...erial/54585/

I find the self adhesive flock so useful and cheap that I always keep a spare sheet

A long time ago I posted the first iteration of this set up...it has evolved many time since then. A month ago I modified my DOAL set up further. After having made a panel light that attaches to my camera lenses I had some extra LED strips left over:

https://goccf.com/t/251132

I think from the following photos it is fairly obvious what I did. in the process of building this latest iteration I finally found a use for one of my dust gathering jansco lights. The power supply for the jansco was perfect for the LED strips!:

The beam-splitter part of the rig wit integral lighting:

Diffuse-On-Axis-Lighting-Rig:-My-Latest-Iteration

Diffuse-On-Axis-Lighting-Rig:-My-Latest-Iteration

Diffuse-On-Axis-Lighting-Rig:-My-Latest-Iteration

This is how it looks when the light is on:


Diffuse-On-Axis-Lighting-Rig:-My-Latest-Iteration

The insides of the beam-splitter housing are covered with the Edmunds blackout material. Likewise the work area of my macro stand is also covered with the same flock. When there is no coin in position the cameras histogram records only black. There is one disadvantage of covering the work area in that flock: it is a dust magnet and it really shows the dust. I use a 3M lint roller to remove the dust from the flock. That Lint remover is as useful, for me, as an 11% grey card. Instead of dusting ( which just puts dust in the air I use the lint remover( except for coins of course)

Crucial to the whole rig is a shroud that absorbs the light that has passed through the beam splitter. It is also lined with the Edmunds Back out material. Without it I have huge problems with reflections from the top surface of the beam splitter. The Shroud:

Diffuse-On-Axis-Lighting-Rig:-My-Latest-Iteration

Diffuse-On-Axis-Lighting-Rig:-My-Latest-Iteration

The out side of the shroud is covered with black contact paper.


Here are some recent examples of photographs:

The following photo is almost straight out of the camera. the only editing was to convert it from RAW to a JPEG:

Diffuse-On-Axis-Lighting-Rig:-My-Latest-Iteration

IN my experience this lighting source is brilliant for gold whether proof, proof-like or circulated.

It is not so good for low relief coins this following shot is of a proof-like strike, but it is a very shallow design and when edited the coin actually looks cartoonish. I will probably try a honeycomb diffuser with normal lighting for a better shot. Like the previous photo this photo is unedited. I don't worry too much about composition before editing(before any one makes comment about the orientation of the coins in the last two photographs)

Diffuse-On-Axis-Lighting-Rig:-My-Latest-Iteration


After editing in Photoshop Elements

Diffuse-On-Axis-Lighting-Rig:-My-Latest-Iteration

Diffuse-On-Axis-Lighting-Rig:-My-Latest-Iteration


the rig as it stands is good but isn't perfect:

Some faults( these are not the only ones but they are the most annoying):

1: The LED strips I used are not dim-able. The light is either on or off. I had thought the LED strips were dim-able but I was wrong( I found out after assembling the lighting unit). Certainly the rig would be much more versatile with that function built in ( may be next year I will rebuild it)

2. The space to get coins into the lighting area is too small. I should have built the beam-splitter stand higher to give more space. The same applies to the shroud I had made it so that I could change coins while it was in place but the gap just isn't high enough. To change photography subjects I remove the shroud, position the coin and then replace the shroud.

3. I am not sure I have oriented the beam splitter in the most optimal way. I suspect if I had it mounted 90 degrees to the current set up I would be happier( but I won't know until I try it)

Edited by austrokiwi
02/28/2016 09:28 am
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mcshilling's Avatar
Canada
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 Posted 02/28/2016  09:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mcshilling to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting read, can you post a pic of the complete setup in use, thank you.
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 Posted 02/28/2016  10:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add austrokiwi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Interesting read, can you post a pic of the complete setup in use, thank you.


That would probably help alot

I had to use the camera to take the photo but you can see the Arca clamp that holds the camera above the lighting rig.

First photo with out the shroud

Diffuse-On-Axis-Lighting-Rig:-My-Latest-Iteration

Second photo with the shroud ( showing how it works)

Diffuse-On-Axis-Lighting-Rig:-My-Latest-Iteration
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1915 Posts
 Posted 02/28/2016  12:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Albert to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You might say your results aren't perfect, but boy I wish I could get images half as good as yours.
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 Posted 02/28/2016  1:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add austrokiwi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the compliment. Its easy to produce nice looking photographs when you have nice coins to make images from. For me the real challenge comes with photographing coins that have toned awkwardly and less than perfect but rare coins. This technique can produce outstanding results for some coins as they advertise for the DOAL units the technique ( copied from their specs) is best for


Quote:
Evenly illuminate flat, shiny surfaces
Enhance scribed, indented, or embossed features
Create contrast between specular, diffuse and/or absorptive surfaces
Diminish visibility of clear overcoats or coverings



however there are real failings with this type of lighting.... It isn't clear in the photos I have posted here but nearly every shot taken with this technique suffers from ghosting; a secondary image shifted slightly in relation to the main image. As the image light path is interrupted and bent by the beam-splitter there is some blurring of the final image..so if you are aiming for a high resolution shot this technique is not the one to go for. For "WOW" shots it can be brilliant.

Edit: Here is an example of the ghosting. I used the dodge tool in photo shop to make it much more obvious. Normally it would be the same( but more translucent) color as the coin:

Diffuse-On-Axis-Lighting-Rig:-My-Latest-Iteration
Edited by austrokiwi
02/28/2016 2:15 pm
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 Posted 02/28/2016  4:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Beautiful images AK.

The ghosting was what turned me off to the Edmunds splitter, but what I saw was not so pronounced. Have you tried flipping it around? Is your splitter a 50/50? Long as you can process the image to remove the ghost, seems the technique is good.
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at:
http://macrocoins.com
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 Posted 02/28/2016  4:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add andywoj00 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
How does this setup do with silver coins and luster/toning? My minimal experience with axial results in great detail and toning but loss of luster. Could you provide an example of an Ike or ASE using your rig?
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 Posted 02/28/2016  7:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pepactonius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Fantastic photos.


I've recently been experimenting with a beamsplitter from Edmund Optics and axial lighting. This could be a better alternative to the pseudo-axial technique using a tilt-shift bellows for shiny coins.

After reading your post, I tried to look for ghosting, but don't see any. I tried reversing the beamsplitter but still don't see anything. I tried extreme overexposure and black backgrounds, but still don't see anything. I have a smaller 60x80mm plate beamsplitter which is 1mm thick rather than 3mm, but I assume there would still be ghosting, just 3x closer to the main image.

I even tried opening up to f/4 (from the usual f/8) to see if shooting through 1.4mm of glass might be causing trouble, but don't see anything. (If my calculations are OK, shooting through 1.4mm or even 4.2mm of glass shouldn't cause trouble, for normal macro lenses and magnifications less than 1x -- you just need to keep the NA less than 0.1 or so.)
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 Posted 02/29/2016  12:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add austrokiwi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
After reading your post, I tried to look for ghosting, but don't see any. I tried reversing the beamsplitter but still don't see anything. I tried extreme overexposure and black backgrounds, but still don't see anything. I have a smaller 60x80mm plate beamsplitter (Could a moderator please add "beamsplitter" to the spell check) which is 1mm thick rather than 3mm, but I assume there would still be ghosting, just 3x closer to the main image.


Thinner glass would help a lot. As you point out the ghosting is related to glass thickness. It is a secondary image produced at the second( I assume the top) Glass air interface. I have also observed that it appears the ghosting is related to the distance the coin is from the beamsplitter and also the lens. In the ducat image I had to work really hard to find and then highlight the ghost( more than 10 minutes) so for many people it would not be an issue. I will repeat myself and rmpsrmps for high-resolution pictures it is not a good technique. Putting any extra glass between the subject and the lens degrades the image destroying micron level detail.

andywoj00 ===> being a foreign collector ( in both senses) I don't have an Ike and, although I should know it, I just can't recall what an ASE is(Edit: a Silver eagle of course and my only example is locked away in the bank). Instead here are four unedited shots of different coin types I hope this gives you your answer. The four coins in order( This was done quickly with no consideration to composition) Edit: please note I set the camera to standard quality Jpeg images( raw would have produced much higher quality images). The only editing was to rotate the image( only for the 2 mils) and to crop it the aim with these shots is to give a warts and all demonstration ( editing would clean up the 2 pence image but hide the faults of this lighting technique):

1. A horrible private mint issue its proof silver with gold plating. I used it to highlight the performance between gold and silver and how it deals with a proof surface.

Diffuse-On-Axis-Lighting-Rig:-My-Latest-Iteration

2. An artificially toned MTT. That how it works with toning. As an aside whoever toned it did not clean off the toning chemicals too well. The toning process is still proceeding in a couple of years it will be completely dark

Diffuse-On-Axis-Lighting-Rig:-My-Latest-Iteration

3. Uk 2 pence: demonstrating brown toned copper(exposure should have been a little longer) This is a poor shot! this level of toning, for me, is hard to image well with this technique. However I have a toned matt-proof coin( its in the bank) that I know produces very spectacular images with this type of lighting

Diffuse-On-Axis-Lighting-Rig:-My-Latest-Iteration


4 Palestinian 2 mils: bright copper/bronze

Diffuse-On-Axis-Lighting-Rig:-My-Latest-Iteration



Edited by austrokiwi
02/29/2016 06:14 am
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 Posted 02/29/2016  02:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add specksynder to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow, the diffusion is really impressive. What's the footprint of that setup?
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 Posted 02/29/2016  04:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add austrokiwi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
What's the footprint of that setup?


Fully set up (with the shroud in place) the foot print is 290 mm( lets call it 300mm) by 210mm and 200 mm high. IN American thats 1 ft by 8.26" and 7.87" high.

Take the shroud away its 200mm Long( 40mm of that is for the LED light housing) 180mm wide and 160mm high. In American again: 7.87" by 7" and 6.29" high

The macro stands base board is just under 2 ft by 2 ft ( actual dimensions 1.96 ft by 1.96ft) Its a 600mm X 600mm X 30 mm granite slab that weighs around 60 Ibs
Edited by austrokiwi
02/29/2016 04:22 am
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 Posted 02/29/2016  8:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rocky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
austrokiwi. I was wondering have you ready anything on a new lighting setup. I will try to find the link again. what this group was experimenting with. they built a mount and housing. setup 2 really weird condensers. these condenser was very large. they shown a jansjo lamp. at one end. the light that came out the other end. was used to light the coin. the light was much more diffused. it also spread the light out. in a much wider cone. so that it did not light the coin with such hard light. I see if I can find it again. I will share it here have a great one
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 Posted 03/01/2016  05:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add qxy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
austrokiwi, those are some amazing photos!

You mention the Edmund beamsplitter, what's the main advantage of that compared to just a plate of glass? At the moment I'm using the glass plate from a cheap photo frame, which works quite well. I'm always looking to improve the photos but would find it hard to spend 200 bucks on a beamsplitter without knowing how much improvement it would bring...

How do you set the white balance? I do have a grey card, but still I never manage to get the colour of coins right immediately. I still need to tone down the saturation to get the colours more realistic (not too yellow).
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 Posted 03/01/2016  07:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add austrokiwi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
qxy: The simple answer is a purpose made beam splitter just makes the job easier(not necessarily better). It like the difference between using a 50mm F2.8 enlarger lens and a Printing nikkor 105mm. Both can produce very high resolution images.. the printing nikkor is just easier to use and has some added benifits. I agree at $200.00 it seems hard to justify using the edmunds product. 3 years ago it was $135.00 and when I purchased mine( I think 18 months ago) it was $175.00.

Whats the difference:

Edmunds sells a variety of beamsplitters that are rated for how much they transmit. The best for coins is a 50/50 beamsplitter. 50 percent of the light is transmitted and 50% is reflected when it is positioned at 45 degrees to the light beam.

with a 50-50 beamsplitter( effectively a half mirror) 50% of the source light gets to the coin... the image light ( the light coming from the coin) is likewise split with 50% being reflected back to the light source and 50% being transmitted to the camera. So of the original light beam 25% gets to the camera.

A plain piece of glass has a 95% transmission and 5 % reflection so of the original beam only 4.75% ( 90% of 5%) gets to the camera.

On effect of this is you either have to start with a brighter light, and this is where a spot light would shine(forgive the intended pun), or you have to use longer exposures. Longer exposures make "contamination" by vibration more likely.

At the current pricing the only way it would be slightly more affordable would be for 10 people to pool together and buy a bulk order of 10 50/50 beam splitters I believe that may drop the price as "low" as US$154.00 ( plus postage) but even then the ROI may not be worth it.


You can probably repeat and even exceed my results with just a plain piece of glass. To do you would at least have to have much better vibration dampening than a standard copy stand.

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 Posted 03/01/2016  10:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add qxy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, that is very clear. I guess I'll stay with glass for now...
At the moment I'm using a flash gun as light source, which at least is a pretty bright (and adjustable) light source. So far I've found that vibration was less of an issue than actually properly focussing. I tend to change the camera-to-coin distance often in order to get coins of different sizes to fill the frame, so I need to refocus after every change.
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 Posted 03/01/2016  12:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add andywoj00 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Do you know how many watts of led lighting you have? If I can find a diffused, dimmable led panel cheap, I want to build a setup like this sans the beam splitter glass...too much $$ for my ROI.
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