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 Replies: 28 / Views: 2,341 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9796 Posts |
MS64RB from PCGS as to an EAC grade? I'd need to see it in hand but it looks MS for sure, EAC experts might go AU58 or MS63 I'd wager.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440 |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5684 Posts |
Gorgeous coin! Love the circular die break. I'll say MS65 RB.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3229 Posts |
MS65 by TPG and likely MS62 EAC. I am seeing tons of luster and no wear. And I'm jealous!  Love the die crack! That LC rocks!  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4337 Posts |
wow that is some die crack. exceptional coin. MS65RB
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1499 Posts |
The PCGS grade is MS-65, R&B.
I am an EAC member, and I have a somewhat low membership number, under 1,000.
Many aspects of EAC grading are legitimate. Coins with problems should be graded and have descriptions that cover the issues. Re-coloring is not the end of the world. It's the nature of pure copper or what passed for pure copper in those days is chemically reactive, and Mother Nature is always trying to return it to its natural state.
The negative aspect of EAC grading is the politics. If "connected collector X" owns something, the standard is one thing. If "Joe Blow collector" owns it the conservative standards kick in to the keep the grade down. You can criticize me to the stars for saying that, but I've been around long enough at the EAC conventions (since the late 1970s) to see it.
One collector here said that the 1793 Wreath Cent (S-11c) I posted was a Fine using EAC standards. NO BODY, unless they are out of their mind, would sell you that coin as a Fine. They might buy it from a collectors' widow as a Fine. Lord knows there are people with no ethics who would do anything when they are buying collections. But nobody would ever retail that coin as a Fine with Fine price on it.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
594 Posts |
Here-Here! re EAC grading .... also an EAC member (but not near your low number)
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Pillar of the Community
Germany
1852 Posts |
First a few comments to the coin which billjones is showing us: just beautiful and fantastically well preserved, as all of the coins which he has shown so far. Second, to the comments about differences in EAC vs TPG grading: I am by no means and expert. but am a copper enthusiast and this much I have learnt. Yes, EAC grading is much stricter, but methodical and logical, accounting in a structured manner (or as much as it is possible) for all defects to arrive at a final grade. So yes, the EAC grade is lower, sometimes much lower than the TPG grade, but from what I have seen, the actual price paid is at the end fairly similar as can be seen by viewing EAC pricing guides (for example in CQR). Lastly, to the comment billjones makes about 'peculiarities' on how EAC grades may be assigned depending on who owns the coin: I say 'wow!', I certainly do not have the experience to judge, and I may also be naive, but if true, for a copper fan like myself its like telling a child Santa Claus does not exist. Edited by GERMANICVS
03/15/2016 2:45 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1499 Posts |
My comments about EAC politics were aimed at challengers to coins in the condition census. When "Joe Blow" has a coin that might crack that select group, some people are ready "to circle the wagons." It's human nature, and EAC grading is a good excuse. As for more ordinary coins, the same games that you hear in other areas of the market come into play. For example when I was dealer I had a decent of example of the 1805, C-3 Half Cent. This is the scarce "Small 5, Stems" variety, which is listed in the Red Book. There are two varieties within the "Small 5, Stems" group. The more common one was struck on buckled dies and is an odd coin with "mounds" (die sinking) in the obverse fields. The coin is always sort of "concave" in shape. I offered my coin to a well known EAC dealer. He gave me a "rooster and bull story" about how the coin had been used at one time to support table leg and was bent. He should have known better because he knew I was not someone who had just dropped off the turnip truck. But who knows - we all have our weak moments. I passed on his paltry offer and later sold it to another dealer at a fair price. The message is, study your subject so you know what you are doing, don't be intimidated by "games." Edited by billjones
03/15/2016 3:06 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
594 Posts |
Oh my - two of my favorite posters at 'odds'....... good points each, however human nature does often favor the fair haired child.
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
Got to the game late, but was actually going to guess MS-64 Full Red. Beautiful coin.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
18712 Posts |
Thank you for sharing such a beautiful piece of history Bill and for sharing your insights on EAC. Sad for germanics though as Santa had a fake beard and no one told him until now  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
I collect early copper. I'm an EAC member, very new one at that, less than a year. I don't really know much about the politics, but I enjoy EAC just to share copper stories w/other similar collectors. EAC grading is a "black art" which seemingly takes decades to master. EAC grading is very conservative but is more in line with how coins are graded overseas and how coins were graded pre-ANA. I was amazed when I saw that what I would have called an AU55 coin, EAC was calling a net VF35. Makes you really rethink things -- is EAC just brutal, or is gradeflation really that prevalent?
I'd rather stay out of the politics side entirely (I don't have the small fortune needed to own more than a few dozen coppers, so I'm not really worried about CC or all that, although I do have a few high grade examples.) I have an ex-Rasmussen piece -- 1826 N5 AU58/CAC -- which to me is really gorgeous -- but I was told early on that "all the Rasmussen coins were horribly overgraded" and so I don't even bring it up often because of that stigma and the feeling that by not agreeing with the "herd" that I am greatly offending the Gods of Copper.
That being said, where else am I going to find other people who are proud to own copper in basal/fair/abt. good and not look at it like it's junk metal? EAC fills that role nicely. So far the members that I have met online and in person have been extremely knowledgeable and very friendly and welcoming.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis Edited by paralyse
03/16/2016 10:28 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3229 Posts |
I too am a member of the EAC. I joined just three years ago and was able to go to the EAC convention in Colorado Springs. The convention was fantastic. People were very nice. I learned a ton from that visit and highly recommend going if you love old us coppers. I got to see a chain cent in person! In fact a couple of chain cents. I first for me. Prices were higher than I had expected. Still, I found a couple of coins to take home:) As for EAC grading I recommend the grading guide made by some fairly knowledgeable EAC folk. Here is the link (btw, looks like they have upgraded the site:): http://eacs.org/books-and-resources...ading-guide/ |
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Replies: 28 / Views: 2,341 |
First Page
Posted 03/15/2016 02:11 am
