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 Replies: 22 / Views: 3,017 |
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Valued Member
United States
156 Posts |
I try never to be a negative person, especially on this forum, but something happened awhile back and I'd appreciate your thoughts. I bought a Three Cent Silver in an NGC slab graded XF 45. It wasn't an older slab version but I wasn't sure when the grading occurred. I removed the coin from the slab because I was going to put it in album. It was done carefully (in case you were wondering)and the coin wasn't damaging or touched. It also was not cleaned. My plans changed so I decided to have the coin re-slabbed. When I went to the FUN show in Orlando I took it back to NGC for grading. I even offered them the original slab insert showing the grade and other information. They said it wasn't needed. Well, a few weeks later I got the coin back and guess what? Grade: XF Details - Cleaned. Huh? The last NGC "Expert" who graded this coin couldn't tell it had been cleaned, thus destroying the value? Which makes me wonder: what is the point of getting coins graded if the "experts" are no more insightful than the novices? If they miss something that obvious the first time, what is the point in retaining their services, or trusting their grades for that matter? Talk me off the ledge please....  Edited by Afab67
04/03/2016 7:04 pm
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Rest in Peace
United States
7075 Posts |
Don't jump. These days I value the opinions of the experts on this site far more than the opinion anybody who grades coins for a living. I heard -- and by that I really mean I heard it and have no basis to verify this -- that they spend about two minutes on each coin and most of that time is on the label. Please don't jump.  |
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Rest in Peace
United States
18456 Posts |
I think your way off on the time they spend to grade a coin . I'm sure I heard it's 3 seconds on each side of the coin . which to me is ridiculous .  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7375 Posts |
Quote:
....they spend about two minutes on each coin... Two minutes if you are lucky, I've seen threads here on this before and the consensus is more like seconds, unless it's something special. I think a lot of us can relate. TPG is a gamble, and all I can do is try to minimize the risk somehow. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
NGC is much more likely to issue a details for improperly cleaned today than just a few years ago.
Although much hoopla has been made about Gradeflation in the last 25 years, when it comes to determining that any cleaning is no longer market acceptable, it's actually become a bit tighter.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2543 Posts |
Submitting your coin for grading is like submitting your apple pie for judging at the county fair. While there are definitive guidelines the graders go by, it is still a subjective process.
There are many...many threads here about similar experiences. Coins that were resubmitted, hoping for a higher grade, coming back with a lower grade or a details grade. There are also many threads about crack outs coming back with a higher grade, even some instances of "details" coins, cracked out and resubmitted, coming back as graded problem free coins.
Learning how to grade your own coins, identify cleaning, old cleaning, dipping and other problems, is a valuable skill that all collectors should develop.
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Valued Member
 United States
156 Posts |
Thanks everybody. Truly, I wasn't expecting a higher grade on the coin. I just couldn't believe that they missed the fact that the coin had apparently been cleaned the first time.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5240 Posts |
I have long since ceased to be surprised at the results of any TPG. I am sure that most of the graders there are quite skilled but it is quite impossible to have complete consistency or to be free of errors. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
I break out any coins I purchase in a slab. Regardless of what is written on the slab, I ignor it and just put it in my album.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8516 Posts |
Can you post a pic of the coin ? You have me curious now.
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7390 Posts |
To error is human and grading is subjective. The first subject thought it was righteous, the second thought it was cleaned.... Send it back in for another "opinion" if the value between details and righteous is large enough
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
Because the old NGC slab says it hasn't been cleaned, that doesn't mean the coin has not been cleaned. You need to learn how to detect cleaning yourself. I have rejected many slabbed "problem-free" coins because the coin was obviously NOT problem-free.
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Moderator
 Canada
10458 Posts |
Quote:
Because the old NGC slab says it hasn't been cleaned, that doesn't mean the coin has not been cleaned. You need to learn how to detect cleaning yourself. I have rejected many slabbed "problem-free" coins because the coin was obviously NOT problem-free. This pretty much says it all. When you had the coin free from the holder, what was your own opinion of the coin and its surfaces? "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Valued Member
United States
156 Posts |
I thought the coin was in excellent shape which is why I bought it. I trusted the NGC grading that it was just as described. A newbie mistake that will never again be repeated. Sadly, I no longer have the coin, having given it to a relative who wanted it for her collection.
It was just that, as newcomer to coin collecting, I was told that buying graded coins was safer. Sure, some might argue whether it was XF 45 or XF 40, but you were confident that was XF and had not been cleaned or otherwise tampered with.
So my message to other newcomers would have to be: do not trust grading services alone. They are no guarantee of grade or quality. Period. You're going to have to learn the hard way, which means lots of mistakes and quite possibly getting ripped off on a regular basis until you know what you're doing.
Sorry if that last line sounds a bit snarky, but it seems to be true.
Edited by Afab67
04/04/2016 2:23 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
604 Posts |
At my local coin shop last year, I was in the shop when they just got a bundle of Indian Head cents from the person they bought them from. It was obvious to me that they where kept in a cardboard folder and I specifically asked if they where to which they confirmed and showed it to me. The coins had great luster but the reverse on of them all had been discolored from the time they where kept in the folder. For me it was a disappointment because they looked great until you flipped them over. Fast forward to the time those coins came back from being graded. It wasn't to much of a surprise that they all had been labeled "UNC Details - Improperly Cleaned". In my opinion just because it has that label doesn't necessarily mean the coins were cleaned. It may just mean it was graded that way to "save" the TPG from being accountable for giving it an actual grade when they had no idea how the coins became discolored. With all things given, try to keep an open mind about your purchases. Most importantly if you like a coin and the price is right....get it. |
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Valued Member
United States
156 Posts |
Very true. A hard lesson learned. Normally I'm not so naive, but in this case...
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Replies: 22 / Views: 3,017 |
Posted 04/03/2016 8:31 pm
