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Ancient Rome Vs Classical Greece

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DavidUK's Avatar
United Kingdom
2624 Posts
 Posted 04/27/2016  5:27 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add DavidUK to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Poll Question
I was watching a show on the BBC - Mary Beards Ultimate Rome and started looking for more of her documentaries and I stumbled across the Major of London and Mary Beard showing the advantages of classical education at Oxford and Cambridge respectively...

http://wn.com/greece_vs_rome,_with_...d_mary_beard

A great question... which was greater?

Poll Choices
 Classical Greece
 Ancient Rome

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echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 04/27/2016  6:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would have to say Classical Greece was greater the Ancient Rome. Many more man of science, literature, medicine, architecture, came from Greece than Rome. Democracy was also a Greek invention. When Ancient Rome was a greater military power I can't see where it would match the achievements of Classical Greece.
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jskirwin's Avatar
United States
616 Posts
 Posted 04/27/2016  7:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jskirwin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I liked Boris Johnson before the debate and I came away from it liking him even more (sure wish he was an American pol).
Greece was clearly the better innovator, but Rome refined their culture and exported it. Rome was a multi-cultural phenomena, one that wouldn't be seen again until the rise of the nation states 1,400 years later.
But hey, it's like arguing chocolate vs. vanilla.
Both are great (but chocolate!)
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 04/27/2016  8:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with all of the previous comments.

Not like comparing oranges with oranges, or even with apples and oranges.
More like comparing fruit with buildings, cannot be done.
Rome and Greece were different, and just as diverse as people are.

I collect the coins of each, just for what each happens to be.
However, I do prefer ancient Greek art, especially in the way it is expressed on ancient Greek coins.
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chuy1530's Avatar
United States
513 Posts
 Posted 04/28/2016  01:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chuy1530 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"Greece" was a bunch of different peoples that could rarely get enough spears pointed the right direction to bother anyone outside of their little sphere of influence. Sure, Alexander did it, but then he died and it all went kablooey. Rome dominated massive swaths of Europe, North Africa and the Middle East for an extremely long time. Militarily there's no comparison.

Culturally Greece has the edge, and I think Romans wouldn't take any offence at that. Many Romans admired and followed Greek art and science.

But Rome wasn't about art and science, at least they weren't about generating their own. They were about taking stuff they saw other people doing and making it just a little bit better, then often dominating people that'd never seen the first thing. From the Corvus to the Gladius to the Aqueducts to the maniple system to coinage itself (a city emblem? Hey I can put a picture of my ancestor on here and make people like my family more!) they were a very practically minded people, which is something I can relate to.

Oh, and they made concrete, which was a pretty big deal. So the Greeks made some nice vases and Rome dominated the world with technology they appropriated from other places they'd already dominated. I'm on team "Rome" :)
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16849 Posts
 Posted 04/28/2016  02:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It does depend on how you define "greatness". The Greeks invented much of what we consider "good" about the ancient world in terms of culture and science - coins being just one of their inventions that we still use. But is this enough to consider them the "greatest"?

The Roman main claim to fame - "greatness", if you will - is their legacy of conquest; while other ancient empires were bigger and richer, few lasted longer (especially if you consider the Byzantine period as an extension of the Roman period) and none other ever managed to assimilate the entire Mediterranean basin, and with it most of Europe. While I tend to agree with Yoda that "Wars not make one great", the legacy left behind by the Romans has proved very enduring and pervasive. Even here on the far side of the world where the Romans never came in person, our country has a "Roman" name, not a "Greek" one, and Roman ideals live on here - underpinning concepts such as our legal system, our government structure, and the very design of the coins we still use; these are all copied from Roman models rather than Greek ones. Even this alphabet that we're using to communicate with is basically the same as the alphabet the Romans used, and quite different to the Greek one.

One could argue that much of what was "great" about Rome (such as their art and architecture) was stolen from the Greeks after the Greeks had been assimilated, but I would argue that even if they had not stolen those things, Roman concepts and cultural remnants would still be just as pervasive in society today. I therefore voted "Rome".
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Spence's Avatar
United States
34427 Posts
 Posted 04/28/2016  05:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
From a strictly numismatic viewpoint, I'm on team Greece.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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DavidUK's Avatar
United Kingdom
2624 Posts
 Posted 04/28/2016  06:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DavidUK to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am firmly on the side of Greece too... the Romans achieved much but their culture was so heavily influenced by the Greeks - the idea of copying manuscripts from ships that cane into port, scientific enquiry and the Socratic principles of debate were just genius. Military achievents impress me less... mans ambition to dominate others is nothing to be celebrated in my opinion.
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antwerpen2306's Avatar
Belgium
1194 Posts
 Posted 04/28/2016  10:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add antwerpen2306 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
IMO it is very difficult or impossible to compare two cultures , even when these cultures are very close .Also , a culture is changing over the centuries .You can not compare in Greek culture , the 5th century with in Athens Pericles , the beginning of historiograghy (Herodote,Thucydides ),the further evolution of the philosophy , arts ... with ,for instance, the ptolemaic period with a total different political system and even an evolution in art , from idealizing the concept of beauty to a realistic art . Also , in Rome , there is a evolution : politically , the democracy started about the same time as in Greece with the Republic and lasted much longer than in Greece , but ended on the same way in a dictatorship . For figurative arts , the Romans were from the beginning realistic and I think that is one of the great differences with Greece : Rome is realistic and objective , Rome knows that a good organisation is necessary and takes his time to make it politically and legally
So , every culture has its own evolution , but has been influenced by others . Just as Rome is influenced By Greece , the different Greeks poleis were influenced by the cultures in Asia and egypt .
Therefore , it is difficult to compare cultures , but you can have a preference , just as you have it for everything in daily live , the only problem is , imo , that we have been educated in a certain direction - I do not want to be negative - and we are more or less influenced .
I also prefer Greece if I have to choose , but I prefer the old Egyptian culture. albert
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lrbguy's Avatar
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 Posted 04/28/2016  1:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lrbguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Edison invented the lightbulb. Did it stay as he had patented it? Would you prefer the first form or its latest?

Rome built upon the legacy of Greece, and utilized them in advancing those innovations. In terms of longevity, Rome established a more elaborate and long lasting form of government than any of the Greeks had done. The Romans had indoor plumbing with running water, and heated flooring - implying innovation in architecture that was miles ahead of the Greeks. Do you associate aqueducts with Greece or Rome? How about paved roads?

Let us not be too idealistic about what it takes to make for "greatness." Not all of life is art.
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DavidUK's Avatar
United Kingdom
2624 Posts
 Posted 04/28/2016  1:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DavidUK to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No the lightbulb was modified because the original version didn't blow often enough... designed obscelescence is good for business.

Sure Rome improved on some aspects of Greece but I would maintain its easier to live a happy and peaceful life in small communities...you dont need paved roads and aquaducts in small communities...Hreece wasn't populated to the same extent as Rome.
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GERMANICVS's Avatar
Germany
1849 Posts
 Posted 04/28/2016  2:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GERMANICVS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Any folk who could eagerly march into, survive, and flourish for many centuries in the wilds of northern europe coming from the sunny mediterranean gets my vote.
Yes, much of it was in the name of conquest and had a distinct and strong (and sometime unsavory) military aspect, but they also left behind enduring architectural, organizational and also technical advancements which in general advanced the lives of the peoples the romans conquered.
No, you cant't compare the two, but overall Rome gets my vote.
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Bacchus2's Avatar
United Kingdom
2889 Posts
 Posted 04/28/2016  2:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bacchus2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As I recall her point was that while the Romans conquered the Greeks militarily, the Greek culture influenced the Romans to such an extent that it could be seen as a counter conquest, and while the Romans no longer have any say over Greece (lets forget the EU mess) Greek culture still influences much of the Western world today.
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antwerpen2306's Avatar
Belgium
1194 Posts
 Posted 04/29/2016  06:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add antwerpen2306 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
just as Romans do with laws (codex of Napoleon is based on Roman laws , European codices on Napoleon ) , with technics , with language (French ,Spanish , English , Italian )...
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