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1964 Sp/Sms Nickels Or BU Unc?

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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 05/04/2016  12:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The image on the left on my post is a 1965 SMS nickel reverse. The reverse doesn't show the same thickness and squared edge the proof coins have. (above)

The obverse 1966 SMS doesn't show that thickness either:
1964-Sp/Sms-Nickels-Or-BU-Unc?
Edited by coop
05/04/2016 12:35 am
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Jimmyjohns7724's Avatar
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 Posted 05/04/2016  12:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jimmyjohns7724 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's a 67 in your image. At least that's what it says
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Jimmyjohns7724's Avatar
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 Posted 05/04/2016  12:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jimmyjohns7724 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The 66 is close I think. It kind of looks like the toning has made it appear thinner.
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 05/04/2016  12:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok yea. I tried to find it and couldn't with 1965. (dooh!)

Until this thread, I've never heard of them before. I check on ebay and Heritage to find what is out there.
Edited by coop
05/04/2016 12:41 am
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Jimmyjohns7724's Avatar
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 Posted 05/04/2016  12:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jimmyjohns7724 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Haha no problem I caught it.
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Jimmyjohns7724's Avatar
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 Posted 05/04/2016  12:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jimmyjohns7724 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not sure if you saw this one but it was also in the same roll as the others I shared. It's in a 2x2 and it's not coming out until my capsules get here, but there are almost uniform gray/black lines all over it and it's the only one like it. The Strike is exceptionally sharp on this one as well.

1964-Sp/Sms-Nickels-Or-BU-Unc?

1964-Sp/Sms-Nickels-Or-BU-Unc?
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 05/04/2016  01:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
But the strike tells me it is a worn die from the business strike coinage. The proof coins are only used for 3,000 coins (6,000 strikes) Your coin looks very weak in strike. Note the strike above on the 1966.
Edited by coop
05/04/2016 01:22 am
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Jimmyjohns7724's Avatar
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 Posted 05/04/2016  01:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jimmyjohns7724 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wouldn't the "haphazard polishing" give it that effect though? The letters are deep and well struck. I always thought over polished dies would turn out a little weaker on the finished product? Jefferson and the Monte Cello seem much weaker in the pictures than in the natural light, it's just hard to capture that. Maybe tomorrow I'll take multiple shots from different angles and try to make it as clear as I can. I believe all of the dies we're pretty weak through the 60's. It's even hard to make out detail on the Monte Cello on the '64 Proofs.
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Jimmyjohns7724's Avatar
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 Posted 05/04/2016  01:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jimmyjohns7724 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The reverse here is a 1964 pf69 for a good reference on die quality


1964-Sp/Sms-Nickels-Or-BU-Unc?
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Jimmyjohns7724's Avatar
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 Posted 05/04/2016  01:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jimmyjohns7724 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Same PF69 Obverse

1964-Sp/Sms-Nickels-Or-BU-Unc?
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 Posted 05/04/2016  01:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jimmyjohns7724 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I feel like the lettering on mine are stronger than the proofs of the same year, but Jefferson and the Monte Cello are roughly the same. It's hard to even make out the hair lines and the door/windows unless they're moved all around and light is captured from every angle. I agree they should be better and I'm not sure what was lacking for that year, but they just seem to be weak no matter the coin.
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Jimmyjohns7724's Avatar
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 Posted 05/04/2016  02:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jimmyjohns7724 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OK..this a fairly definitive reason to feel I got a winner and what I thought I had originally noticed being odd. On the 1964 P, Jefferson has a slimmer look to his profile, almost looking down. He also has a sloped nose. On your picture of the SP, he has a stronger jaw and overall thickness to his profile, appearing to be holding his head high and proud. His nose bumps outward and is much more prominent. Here's some side by sides of the 1964 P, SP, and my ambiguous whatever it is.

1964-Sp/Sms-Nickels-Or-BU-Unc?

Philadelphia on the Left, mine on Right

1964-Sp/Sms-Nickels-Or-BU-Unc?

1964-Sp/Sms-Nickels-Or-BU-Unc?

1964-Sp/Sms-Nickels-Or-BU-Unc?
Rest in Peace
T-BOP's Avatar
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 Posted 05/04/2016  12:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add T-BOP to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow , What a thread !
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 05/04/2016  12:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I see a business strike coin and a SMS nickels. The weakness is the biggest clue to me that your coin is not a SMS coin.
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 Posted 05/04/2016  1:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jimmyjohns7724 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Found the real difference on the rim issue. They are about the same width either way. But the difference is that on the inside of the rim, where it cuts into the face of the coin, the typical P nickel is almost a bowl shape, where the proof edge cuts straight down. You can see on a business Strike how the date and letters round up and into the edge and the others show clear definition on borders.

1964-Sp/Sms-Nickels-Or-BU-Unc?

You can particularly notice the R in Liberty then go outward from there. The BS is concave and bent, flowing with the rim. Mine is flat, like its on a piece of paper. I understand the business Strike is less than ideal, but no amount of circulation is going to change the inside shape of that rim.
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