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1964 Sp/Sms Nickels Or BU Unc?

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Jimmyjohns7724's Avatar
United States
198 Posts
 Posted 05/02/2016  9:35 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Jimmyjohns7724 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
After gathering info and analyzing pictures, I'm stumped. I notice that the MS State'64s I see on PCGS and such seem to have a worn/matte appearance no matter what the grade. The Proofs on the other hand have the typical Squared and Uniform Rim and 5fs, but do have a mirror like appearance. So now I have some of these 64's that are mirror like, so much so it's hard to get a good picture without glare. They have a sharp square edge when looked at sideways, but not on the face of the coin as a proof would. Is this possibly an SP coin for 1964? Or a above average grade? They don't seem to be very well struck on the Monte Cello, but a few do have 2 1/2-3 FS.

1964-Sp/Sms-Nickels-Or-BU-Unc?

1964-Sp/Sms-Nickels-Or-BU-Unc?

1964-Sp/Sms-Nickels-Or-BU-Unc?

1964-Sp/Sms-Nickels-Or-BU-Unc?

1964-Sp/Sms-Nickels-Or-BU-Unc?
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Rackster's Avatar
United States
4809 Posts
 Posted 05/02/2016  9:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Rackster to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Getting nice shots of shiny coins can be challenging. You may want to spend some time in the photography forum to get some tips. Diffused lighting from 2-3 directions will soften the light and reduce glare and shading.

I think you have a bunch of uncirculated (or AU) coins; I picked up a few rolls from my local bank not too long ago that still had the Cleveland wrapper like yours. When I get coins in that state (even 1964s) I like to look for DDOs/DDRs. Hopefully you have one in the mix there.

Good luck!!
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Jimmyjohns7724's Avatar
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198 Posts
 Posted 05/02/2016  10:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jimmyjohns7724 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Rackster I'll give that a shot. Honestly didn't know there was a forum on photography here that'll be helpful. There were a few that looked to be Doubled Dies but I've been getting everything besides genuine DD as a response so I don't even bother with doubles or lack thereof I guess. They seem to be UNC for sure though you can still make out the grinder marks or whatever makes them on the rims. I noticed even the ms67's have patchy die work on the Monte Cello and know it's known from the 60's era of Nickels. I'll read up and get some better pics but thanks for that advice
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 Posted 05/02/2016  10:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NDCENT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is very hard to tell from the lighting.I would love to see better pics.It looks promising.
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Jimmyjohns7724's Avatar
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 Posted 05/02/2016  10:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jimmyjohns7724 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll try to get some in a minute here keep posted
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Jimmyjohns7724's Avatar
United States
198 Posts
 Posted 05/02/2016  10:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jimmyjohns7724 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


1964-Sp/Sms-Nickels-Or-BU-Unc?

1964-Sp/Sms-Nickels-Or-BU-Unc?
New Member
United States
1 Posts
 Posted 05/02/2016  11:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mack to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have nickels 1940. 1942.1949s.1954d.
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Jimmyjohns7724's Avatar
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198 Posts
 Posted 05/03/2016  06:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jimmyjohns7724 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Those are some good ones Mack. I just started on Nickels myself and can't wait to come across some old War Nickels like your 42. Those are all good ones to hold onto
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T-BOP's Avatar
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 Posted 05/03/2016  07:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add T-BOP to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Your not showing any proof 64's . All you have is circulated ( AU ) business strike 64-P Nickels , which virtually never have more than 3 steps .
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Jimmyjohns7724's Avatar
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198 Posts
 Posted 05/03/2016  08:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jimmyjohns7724 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I assure you these are UNC, look at the rim in the pic compared to a circulated 1965. My question was if it was a possible SP strike or just a plain unc. If you look at the rim when compared to an AU 1965 beside it, you can easily see it is UNC. I haven't seen UNC 64's with such a mirror finish. That could be something I discover, but have yet to see any to date.

1964-Sp/Sms-Nickels-Or-BU-Unc?

1964-Sp/Sms-Nickels-Or-BU-Unc?

1964-Sp/Sms-Nickels-Or-BU-Unc?

1964-Sp/Sms-Nickels-Or-BU-Unc?

1964-Sp/Sms-Nickels-Or-BU-Unc?

Edited by Jimmyjohns7724
05/03/2016 09:39 am
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Jimmyjohns7724's Avatar
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198 Posts
 Posted 05/03/2016  09:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jimmyjohns7724 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The 1964 SMS coins are unknown even to many seasoned numismatists," said Huber. "They have a surface texture unlike any other U.S. coins. There are more mysteries posed than facts known about them."

All five denominations show dies that are extensively and haphazardly polished, apparently an intentional texture created by the Mint. The coins show little of the reflectivity of proofs, being rather satiny in appearance, but their squared-off rims, incredible strike sharpness, and excellent preservation identify them as coins that were created and preserved for some special purpose, Huber said.

- See more at: http://www.numismaticnews.net/artic...151200#.dpuf
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Jimmyjohns7724's Avatar
United States
198 Posts
 Posted 05/03/2016  12:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jimmyjohns7724 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Comparison of the polishing techniques used on the well known and graded SP/SMS Kennedy..


1964-Sp/Sms-Nickels-Or-BU-Unc?

1964-Sp/Sms-Nickels-Or-BU-Unc?

1964-Sp/Sms-Nickels-Or-BU-Unc?

And I got smarter and decided to compare a graded 1965 SMS, which would have been prototyped by the 64SP. I this can clearly explain the polishing they used on the SMS.

1964-Sp/Sms-Nickels-Or-BU-Unc?
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biokemist6's Avatar
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12437 Posts
 Posted 05/03/2016  1:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You have an ordinary business strike, not an SMS coin. The known 1964 SMS coins came from the estate of Eva Adams, Director of the US Mint during the 1960s, and are worth thousands of dollars each. This is not something you are going to find in a circulation roll.
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Jimmyjohns7724's Avatar
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198 Posts
 Posted 05/03/2016  1:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jimmyjohns7724 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I read that that theory may be BS though and they were rolled up and shipped out. The theory is that only Eva Adams had them, but how have more been found since 93? Ive read all about the Eva Adams theory and I'm not convinced it was the only source. Mine are most likely business strikes, I'm fine with that. However, it is crazy all the "pros" can tell me is the little story on PCGS. I know that and have read that. But it can't possibly be the only out there? I mean if the Mint did their job and didn't screw up, would variety's exist? I can't help but assume she didn't stand there and tell them "No! Only 18 Nickels" and watched. Or maybe the die wore out faster than usual, and the first few were the "razor sharp" examples, then they over polished the dies to attempt the same quality? Do they become Business Strike once a proof die wears out or are they still Proof Coins? I'm still learning, but I'm not a fan of the "facts" that occasionally contradict. There seems to be a lot of room for error considering there are known errors for basically EVERY year of coins. It was the 60's, maybe someone was super stoned the day they let 500k coins slip out unnoticed lol IDK whatever just bored and have been wondering for a while on these Nickels.
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 Posted 05/03/2016  2:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NDCENT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would compare them to the ones they have on Heritage Auctions website.The die polishing is the way to tell if you have the SMS nickels.I have a 64 Quarter and 64 Lincoln Cent that should be back from NGC any day now.Myself and my coin dealer matched them,so on his advice we submitted them. Take those nickels to a reputable dealer for a look over.You can not lose,but you can gain ALOT,if they are SMS's
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Jimmyjohns7724's Avatar
United States
198 Posts
 Posted 05/03/2016  2:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jimmyjohns7724 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Do they look anything like your quarter and cent? I was planning on it but closest reputable dealer is about 45min from me. You're right though thanks for the advice.
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